Is free will a myth?

[SvennoJ]

gokart48 said:
What if the physics as you say is the foundation to free will, not necessarily the destroyer of it.

Let me see if I understand the argument in general terms. If you set up a row of dominoes and tip one over, the rest of them will fall in succession. Our human existence is merely the result of 4*10^80 atoms reacting under the laws of physics for a span of billions of years as each domino falls into succession.

In which case, yes, everything is predetermined. If we could simulate the universe with 100% accuracy, nothing would change. But does that imply a loss of free will?

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The biggest problem you have with this question is it is not falsifiable. There was often criticism to Freud's interpretation of the mind. If a child was not hugged enough it could explain why he is distant to his parents. But if a child was hugged too much it could also explain his distance towards his parents (to a degree). No matter the outcome, it merely confirms the proposed idea. Me replying, or choosing not to reply does not change anything of this argument. Rather, it is just my brain playing it's part in a scripted idea.

But even if it is that clear cut, then please explain to me a world where there would be free will? Would it be one where there is something legitametely random and cannot be measured under any possible means? And if there is a truly random event, then how could you establish an identity as being unique? If a random variable truly existed, then there would be no self identity. There would be no constant to which you could use the term "I." Thus there could be no free will, because there is no will to start with. You are not "you" because there is not a way to measure you, especially if it shifts in a truly random way.

Rather, our free will comes from a stable foundation. Perhaps we might even be mistaking this concept by thinking that Free Will =/= a predetermined state. Because no matter how you slice it, we have to make choices in our lives. Under both interpretations, those choices are defined by our identity and our neurons.

Or in example, our identity means we would make the same choice twice if all conditions were constant. It makes sense for our personality to choose the same thing twice because it follows who we define ourselves as. How could we even claim to have a unique (and dynamic) identity if we deviated from it?

It is tough because it is a catch 22 argument. There is only one choice we can make at any given time, and there are consequences to those choices. A future has to exist, and because of that it may seem reasonable to conclude that it would be the next domino in line. But that doesn't mean we lack a free will. Physics is the process to how the world works, and it would also make sense that it is the same process to which we debate our ideas and our self. It is the method. And how would we have an identity at all if our neurons weren't arranged in that order to begin with?

So I think a better question to ask is, how could we have a free will if there was not a system in place to make us who we are?If we were to remove ourselves from the universe entirely, the future would be different (Perhaps in some very minute way). So while they may seem like total opposites, perhaps they are one and the same. But since this will never falsifiable, everything is just speculation.

That was what I was trying to get at with that free will (and conciousness) might simply be a product of the workings of our brain and that there is no need for the duality between free will and chemicals + neurons reaching a decision. But you word it much better.

What really is free will. Someone orders you to do one thing and you decide against it? You making your own choice. That works prefectly fine in a deterministic system.

Deterministic doesn't mean predictable as we'll need a parallel universe running ahead to be able to do that, in which case we already altered the parameters by knowing the future in the first universe. Insert that into the simulation as well and I feel like some infinite regression coming on... Only an outside observer can accurately predict or rather see the future.