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sc94597 on 17 June 2016
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Soundwave said:
sc94597 said:

Certainly not, and you won't find Sam Harris saying that either. The solution is to not let homophobia in the Islamic community get a free pass just because Muslims are a minority. To not accept regressive views, even if the people are non-violent. Basically treat Muslims how we treat Christians, with disdain - when they say hateful things, and with praise when they show they care about others. 

But also, to help westernize and liberalize Islam throughout the world via ideas.

 You don't think the bolded has anything to do with the religious views of his family and himself? 

How do you do that though? Because it very easily becomes Islamophobia and is seized upon by people of that ilk as an excuse, which then pisses off Muslims, which leads to them feeling more alienated/isolated, and then guess what happens. 

To me this is a zero sum game, yes we need to push for more liberalism, but we cannot become assholes in the process about it either. That is just to lead to the cycle above. 

Even now Christiainity still has massive issues with homosexuality, it's only really in the last 20-25 years that people in Christainity who were anti-gay have been really shamed for their views and that type of POV is no longer considered mainstream. Expecting this to happen overnight with Islam would be nice, but ultimately probably not realistic. 

In American society there is a focus on assimilation (unlike in Europe/Canada/Australia where the focus is multiculturalism.) So it definitely can hurt your pocket-book and your happiness if you don't assimilate and are ostracized socially. Being afraid of muslims with extremist views or that you will further alienate them is not a solution, and has done us no good. If they get pissed off, it is their problem, just as if the Westboro Baptist Church is pissed off by homosexuality it is theirs. I am not going to be nice to the people who think I should be imprisoned for the way I was born, sorry. They need to change their views before I'll interact with them in a cordial manner. That doesn't mean I won't confront them about their piss-poor ideas either though. They need to be confronted and not ignored. 

Why not? It has worked for mainstream Christians. Christians have been shamed enough to concede some of their views are hateful, and now the LGBT leaders have to turn over rocks to find homophobia from the Christian community. Shame is a strong motivator. 

I don't expect it to happen overnight, but it isn't going to happen if we keep ignoring the undercurrent homophobia and sexism among muslims. When things like below happen, we need to bring it into the spotlight and shame them for it. That doesn't mean we blast the whole community, as there are many muslims who are already secular and liberalized, but blast those who say things like this, and don't pretend it is some marginal reality exclusive to ISIS members.