sc94597 said:
WolfpackN64 said:
Western countries social mobility is much lower then most people suspect. Bureaucracy isn't the problem, the problem is a severe lack of redistribution and a lack of investment in poorer areas.
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"Lower than most people suspect" is not the same thing as low, even if it were true. It is in only in developed countries where the children of people who didn't graduate high school can become billionaires without using force to do it, and a billionaire can lose his fortunes the next day if he makes a mistake. You won't find that in a buraeucratic system where there are legal protections for the powerful.
Also, many Western countries have tons of redistribution (more than nominal "socialist" places like China or India.) Many U.S states also invest heavily in poor, urban areas through special state funding of the schools and business grants, and it just doesn't work (mostly because the poverty is an effect of the drug war.)
It is quite obvious to anyone that the standards of living and opportunity of social mobility for the (relatively) poor in developed countries is excellent when compared to the rest of the world. That the rest of the world has the opportunity to do the same (like China, Brazil, etc) is quite nice, and the historical trend has shown that people are indeed leaving poverty, without needing social ownership of the means of production.
It is also important to note, that there is a high correlation between per-capita income and economic freedom. Much more noteworth than the one between per-capita income and personal freedom (linear vs. square-root.)
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I would like to know where you get your tables from.
The academic sources I consulted and my classes of sociology painted a very different picture. For example: social mobility in Belgium is really not high (aside from succes stories that exist in any country). You also have the situation that the government here and the bureaucracy are often on bad terms with each other.
(I would also like to point out India isn't socialist at all, and while China is ruled by a "Communist Party", social security is really lacking)
