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iron, but the 360 did come out a year earlier, thats a year more boost for HDDVD. its not like its just a crappy overpriced standalone. its just like the ps3, alot of consoles are sold for gaming but people end up using the bluray alot. if 360 would have had HDDVD, a bigger HDD from the begging and less failure rate, i can easily say microsoft would have won the console war hands down. the 360 would have sold just as many units, but HDVD would have caught on more and in turn more 360 units sold for high def movies too. but the fact is, this didnt happen and thats why the 360 is limping along in the console war now.