PS4.XX. There will be NO PS5

[SvennoJ]

Intrinsic said:

SvennoJ said:

It seems like you're not even trying to understand the differences between console optimization and PC development. Games aren't optimized on PC to the hardware, they're optimized to the API. On consoles you can profile the hardware and go further, fine tuning the behaviour of parallel processing to utilize most of the cpu/gpu cycles available. Next to optimizing the code by hardcoding resolution for example.

Sigh..... so you think console SDKs don't have APIs too? I don't even know where to start. Please try and understand. Optimization for a console, using the SDK provided by the platfomr holder and the APIs they make to allow developers take advantage of that hardware is infinitely easier than any kinda PC development. I don't know what about this we are arguing about. 

How can you not see why a single mass market slim is more profitable than carrying and supporting 2 sku.
Nor why selling a $60 game to the same user base generates less profit for a developer that has to make sure it works on 2 console hardware specs (and perhaps 3 with the next iteration)

Will there be a slight bump in the cost of QA and optimization? yes. But that bump is not our business. And is one affordeed by the size of the available insatll base. That's how publishers approach platforms. And by slight bump, we aren't even talking anywhere in the region of a 10% increas e in cost. Most likely around 5%. Unless Sony doesn't do their jobs well. And you keep saying this thing. Supporting two skus.... and I keep trying to tell you. That it will not seem that way at all. Think more of it as supporting two "presets". Cause that's what having APIs in a closed console dev environment allows. PRESETS. 

And do you really think the CPU sits idle waiting for the GPU??? Ever heard of parallel processing? The CPU is already working on the next frame, fetching data, processing sound, AI, controller input and what not. The cpu doesn't wait for the gpu, yet if the gpu needs more attention due to higher fps all those other tasks do get a smaller time slice.

What? Are you confusing pararell code with hyperthreading? There CPU exclusive tasks. Sound, AI...etc. Those for the most part work independently of the GPU. And the load those carry doesn't change regardless of how weak or powerful your system is. Unless your trying to add more (adding features). So unless enemies behave differently or there are more of them on the Neo than their are on the PS4. this wouldn't be a problem. And sonys dev documents clearly states that such differences aren't allowed. 

Then their are CPU tasks that are tied to the GPU. 

Simple math, if it takes a GPU 15ms to render a 1080p frame. It will take a GPU with exactly twice the power 7.5ms to render the exact same frame if memory bandwidth isn't a bottleneck. Whatever the case, habingbamuch more powerful GPU, and one designed to handle things that are not CPU based, will result in all round better performance. 

Replies in bold. 

I don't know why you think SDKs are these wonderful magic things that load balance and optimize everything for you. They can only do so much.

Consider you're developing a game. The cpu does it's share, as well as the gpu. Now you assign more tasks to the cpu to use the idle time left over waiting for certain gpu or other tasks, while carrying over some other CPU tasks to gpgpu to fill up the idle time there, which again allows more cpu time for gameplay related things. The SDK makes that process easier, yet it doesn't do it for you. In the end you get a balanced piece of software that fully utilizes the hardware.

Now you disrupt that balance by unequally increacing the processing speed. Apart from some unforseen timing related consequences, everything should still run at least as well as it did before, as long as you keep the fps the same. However if you assume that it's easy to now suddenly run everything at double the fps or double the resolution you might be in for a rude awakening. Your carefully balanced program now runs like an engine with a wonky wheel. Plus even if you don't add any upgrades you still need to test it all again.

Rememer on PC all this extra load balancing optimization never happens. That's why consoles can get more out of the hardware while PC games rely on overhead. Which is how a GPU heavy game ends up only using 10-20% of cpu time on PC, while a CPU heavy game will hinder high fps.

Anyway you are correct that performance won't be worse on NEO, even a bit better in most cases. Yet you are mistaken that it is easy to simply use that double performance beyond a simple resolution bump. And that it won't have an effect on optimization in ongoing titles, as what load balancing works in the base model's favor won't neccesarily benefit the NEO and vice versa.
Plus things like deciding on 1 resolution can result in a lot of savings by hardcoding that resolution into the software and providing lookup tables for many things. That probably still works as Sony isn't stupid, which is probably why there is a separate GPU binary (unlike PCs where you have 1 code base) and the SDK will solve most of that for you on compile time. Yet during development and testing you are now working on a much more general piece of software instead of fixating on 1 profile.

Middleware engines will do a lot of that for you too. Yet they need to be updated as well, figure out new best ways to load balance on both hardware specs, and pass on the costs to the developers... Extra time, extra money. While the install base is the same as previously projected, heck it might even grow slower as a cheaper slim is what used to ignite sales and draw over the majority to the new gen. Maybe the NEO will do the same, dunno, opinions seem divided.

In the end, there is more work to be done for the same amount of potential sales. Which either means more generalized software like on PC, leading to less full utilization of the hardware, slightly less ambitious games, or ways to get those extra costs back through DLC or higher prices.