Could the Human Race really be the Aliens on this planet??

[JWeinCom]

Dulfite said:

JWeinCom said:

1.  I wasn't accusing you of anything.  I was addressing your use of god as an explanation for creation.

2.  In that case, you're just not using the right terminology, and it's going to get confusing.  Evolution means something really specific in science.  There is a word for how the universe itself changes, and that word is cosmology.  If you're using the terms interchangeably, you're not going to be understood.

3.  I don't know why they need any kind of purpose to exist.  But as for why there are genes (this is called abiogenesis), we have a decent idea.  Genes are made of amino acids, and we have been able to produce these in a lab without any pre-existing life.  So when you get certain molecules together in certain places, it is likely possible for life to exist.  See the Miller Urey experiments.

As for why genes do what they do, there is a really long explanation, but the much shorter one is that they're chemicals.  And chemicals act in certain ways according to the laws of chemistry. In nature we see even non-living things such as crystals (which some people actually think may have something to do with the origin of life) that replicate themselves.  So, yeah.  When you get certain molecules together, they replicate.  And, when those molecules have an imperfect method of replicating, they changes.  

If you're really and genuinely interested in this topic, there are a lot of books and lectures that can explain it better than me.  These aren't unanswerable questions, and we've got some pretty strong ideas.

4.  It resolves the issue in the same way that flipping over a chess board resolves a game of chess.  It's an answer that doesn't have any evidence to support it, and it raises more questions than it answers.  

You're asking a lot of questions when it comes to scientific explanation, which is a good thing.  But, you don't seem to be applying the same scrutiny to the idea of a creator.

Where did this creator come from?  What purpose was behind his creation?  Why did he want to create the universe?  What mechanisms can he use to create the universe?

If you want an answer that actually answers the questions, then an intelligence does not help.  We simply don't have a compelling answer yet, and we need to keep looking.  Maybe that search will turn up an intelligence of some sort, but we have no evidence for one now.

3. Then why are there molecules? And why do they function the way they do? It's just an endless lists of questions. Whatever you or someone else may come up with as an explanation of molecules, I'll just ask what the origin behind that is. When it comes down to it, it's incomprehensible. We have no ability to understand it because things get infintetly smaller and smaller and the "building blocks" become made up of other things. People once thought cells were the smallest things, then atoms, then bases, on and on.

4. The difference here is that, and you can look at the scripture I referenced, I accept the fact that I will not understand everything and I am trusting in God to have the answers (faith). Science dictates that we try to solve everything and figure out the reason. I believe, based on my previous comments, that we, as humans, are incapable of fully (or even remotely) understanding why things are in existence instead of there being nothing. Faith allows me to say to myself, "hey, I don't fully get this and I have a lot of questions, but I can rest assured that God is in control." That is why I don't apply the same scrutiny to the idea of creator.

And as far as evidence goes, that is something you see a lot more after you become a believer. I have experienced things in my life that I know to be evidence, but attempting to explain those things to people (particularly non believers) can be incredibly difficult. Miracles happen all the time, but there is one that I can look at on a grand scale and it affirms my belief. My own comprehension of my own existence. I am not an instinctual creature like every other organism. I can do things counter to what my instrincts tell me to do. I can think on my own above survival mode. People love dogs and cats and other organisms and think they are part of their family and that they smile and love them, but they don't smile (just the way they look) and they only do things for you (tricks, don't run away, etc) because they know you have the food and you provide comfort to them. If that comfort left or the food ran out, they would leave or try to eat you (depending on what we are talking about). Humans don't do that necessarily. I can choose to starve to death rather than eat something. I can choose to kill myself if I wanted to. I can choose to wait to eat until I decide to, not when my stomach gets hungry. I can choose an infinite amount of options that no other species can do, because they are controlled by instinct and survival mode. That is amazing. The fact that I am self aware is astounding and illogical. Why and how could the universe (if there is no God) have organisms come from matter that can become self aware when the universe itself isn't self aware? How did self awareness even come into being if there is no divine contribution?

I've actually given you two sources which give well backed theories as to why there is something rather than nothing.  I don't suppose you read or watched them.  If you're really interested in the question, then I suggest you should.

In reptiles, the brain is almost entirely composed of the lymbic system.  Part of this system is the nucleus accumbens (dunno if that's spelled right) which releases dopamine upon new discoveries.  Things that enhance survival, food, sex, love, pain relief, release large amounts of dopamine.  Meanwhile, the dorsal stratium also uses dopamine to encourage repeated behaviors.  The two work together to form much of what is considered "instinctual".

Mammals developed a part of the brain called the prefrontal cortex.  In humans, this part of the brain is especially large.  The prefrontal cortex is responsible for setting new goals. It can communicate with other parts of the brain (and we've mapped out the neuron circuits involved).  When these goals are reached, the nucleus accumbens releases dopamine, and if the activity is repeated enough, the dorsal stratium will make it a habit.  And that's how we fight instincts.

That's of course a pretty basic overview of it.  But it's not anything magical or mystical.  

Of course, humans are not the only animals that can go against instincts.  I suggest you read up on the behavior of elephants, gorillas, chimps, bonobos, and dolphins for the clearest examples, as they have the largest prefrontal cortex's after us.  

I'm not sure if you've had a dog or a cat, but they do not simply act out of a desire for food.  The reason we know this is because we know that the chemical that drives motivation for food is dopamine while oxytocin is the neurotransmitter that regulates affection in humans and other mammals.  Studying the social structure of dogs, along with neuroimaging, we can see that dogs treat humans as members of their family or pack.

Also, animals have ways of showing affection.  They do not smile because they do not have the facial muscles.  Cats show affection by looking at you and slowly closing their eyes, and also by grooming you (licking).  

The fact that humans are the only animals that are not controlled purely by instinct and survival is not only not a miracle, but it's not even true in the least.  There are many incredibly social animals who act in ways that cannot be explained purely by instincts or survival.  

" Faith allows me to say to myself, "hey, I don't fully get this and I have a lot of questions, but I can rest assured that God is in control." That is why I don't apply the same scrutiny to the idea of creator."

So, basically, you're going to question every naturalistic explanation, but you won't question the supernatural, because it makes you feel better not to?  

I also don't like having so many questions.  But instead of simply attributing it to a magical being, I try to learn about them.  And while I'll never know everything, I'm certainly going to get alot closer this way.  If you want to know the causes of consciousness, you can study neuroscience.  If you want to know about the behavior of animals, you can study zoology.  If you want to know why there is something rather than nothing, or why the world exists as it does, you can study cosmology.  

And if you don't really care about knowing these questions, that's fine.  I don't mean that derisively.  We all have priorities, and if knowledge is not one of yours, that's ok.  However, don't come into a topic to say things like evolution is unlikely if you are unwilling to actually give the matter serious consideration.