hershel_layton said:
Aeolus451 said:
MTZehvor said:
Aeolus451 said:
MTZehvor said:
Aeolus451 said:
You know exactly what I mean by "they chose to be poor". A person even in their young life makes thousands of little choices that even add up and affect how their life will might play out. As they grow older, they have millions of possible choices they can make that can drastically alter their life. A person is not stuck in their situation and most of the time, they have the option to change it. Those two girls used the cards that life dealt them and changed their fate by those little choices.
A person can't choose the situation they are born into or if they will get sick later on but for the most part, it's their life and they can choose to do what they want with it. That's includes staying in their situation or trying to better themselves.
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Then give me examples of those choices. Tell me, how exactly is someone who was too poor to go to college going to "choose" to get the education required to get a decent paying job in the first place? How is someone who grew up in abusive household going to "choose" to suddenly undo all the years of trauma and suddenly be able to work with people well enough to hold a well paying job? How is someone who has to spend time taking care of routinely sick or troubled family members supposed to save enough in order to move up in the world? Simply abandon them? Work even more?
You are vastly overestimating the ability of those in the lower class to choose what they do with their life. The girls you've referenced were geniuses. They were the ones who were smart enough to get colleges to notice and offer scholarships to them. Not everyone is that intelligent. Not everyone's parents care that much, not everyone will be lucky enough to get teachers (especially in public school) that explain to them how impactful these years are on the rest of their life. Not everyone is rich enough to afford college in the first place.
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You nailed it, sherlock. Work harder or more. People can't change their past but they can change their future with their actions here in the now. What do you or anyone else do when you're in a bad situation? Persevere past it or adapt to the situation. The only other option is just let despair take you and give up.
No, I'm not. I just see the pontential in others and how much actual choice someone has. You're not gonna convince me that poor people are chained to their fate. They can overcome it on their own by using their mind and maybe with a little help from some friends.
Some examples of choices? Here's a few. Using hard drugs or not. Drinking heavily. Being irresponsible with money. Assuming you know enough. Dropping out of school. Having kids when you really shouldn't. Breaking the law. Partying.
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Ok, so you work part time at another low paying job (let's say you go from 8 hours a day to 12). As a result, you earn slightly more, but, since its a low paying job, you're not getting anywhere close to moving up in terms of class, you have no time for relationships or networking, or making friends, or taking care of children (if you have them), meaning that any potential children are receiving a terrible upbringing. This person has officially accomplished next to nothing, and, as a result, is probably overworking himself, which will likely require more medical expenses later on in life, thus draining whatever additional income he made now.
The potential that you're referring to just simply isn't relevant until people get the training they need. Everyone has potential, but it doesn't matter until it's honed. As someone whose volunteered in low income neighborhoods and underfunded public schools, I can tell you that all the potential in the world doesn't matter without a good bit of luck coming your way. Even the lower income kids that make the best of choices are oftentimes simply left with no real hope outside of working a $10 an hour job and staying at the same income level as their parents. Not poverty, but by no means able to escape simply being poor.
Many kids avoid these choices. Others find themselves in positions where they're already addicted by the time they grow up, because their parents fail to communicate that drugs are bad, or because their parents themselves get them addicted. In addition, many people grow up with such a survival mentality that the very concept of saving money is completely foreign to them. IPJ published a paper not too long ago referencing how big of a problem this is.
Your position strikes me as one with an abject lack of mercy or care for anyone else. Even IF these people were totally ruining their lives entirely of their own accord, we should still be seeking to help them, not simply ignoring rampant problems in our society and dismissing it as a matter of choice.
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If you call working 8 to 12 hours a day "overworking" then no wonder why we have such a difference stance on this.  In general, people are having kids too young when they should be focusing on careers or schooling. The idea behind working in a dead end job or part time job (if you have to) that you're supposed to just pay the bills while going to school or do online classes or learn about how to run a small business to eventually start your own. If someone is just working a shit job and not doing anything to better their position in life then they are to blame for remaining where they are. You're not supposed to keep working at mcdonalds for the rest of your life.
In truth, I don't have any sympathy for grown adults that are poor but haven't done much to get out of it. If they are government aid, they should be forced to take long term birth control regardless of what gender they are. Government aid in general sounds great on paper but in reality if it's too good as in it's better to be on it then working and paying your own bills, it gives no incentive for someone to better themselves. It actually keeps people poor versus actually helping them get out of poverity. There should be a ultimate time limit for it. I rather give 'em free college than free food or place to stay.
I do have sympathy for the kids which is why I think at least in the states that any teenagers from poor families wanting to go to college should be able to easily get a low interest student loan thats pays completely for whatever type of college degree they want regardless of their credit rating and provide a place to stay and have food to eat.
I'm all for helping someone that wants to better themselves but not anyone else. The rest can go fuck themselves if all they want is to milk the government tit til it's barren and they have nothing to show for it.
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Well, I'm not talking for the lazy people that just want government funds. Of course not. If they choose to be lazy, then they deserve to not have a house and whatnot.
The people I'm talking about are extremely poor people(especially kids) in forced labor, working in factories. Those type of people. The ones that can work 72 hours a week but still get little amounts of money.
I don't care for helping the people that want 15 bucks an hour for working at McDonalds. I care more for the ones that practically have little to no chance to succeed in life. Of course, you may say everyone has a chance to succeed, but let's be honest here- some people simply fail to bring a bright future. There are probably thousands of Africans who've tried whatever they could to get a better life, but in the end failed.
The ones who've used all their effort are the ones who deserve much more decent lives. They shouldn't be scrapping for food and live in a destroyed home.
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