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JWeinCom said: "First of all. I am willing to apologise to you on mutual grounds. I felt "attacked" by your from the beginning. I am sorry if you felt that I was attacking you, that was not my intentions. Which is why I was clear to state that I believe you are intelligent, but I do feel that you may have an inferiority complex simply because you are displaying indications of this to me. Just as I am displaying indications to you that I am lying. Unfortunately, I am not. I did post a link to the web-site of one of guys I talked to. An ex-founding father to be exact. One of the men behind the Baulders Gate games. He gave a very interesting lecture on the game industry and the way it works. A great guy. " No, I don't accept that. If you call someone a jackass and claim that they have an inferiority complex then it was clearly your intention to insult them. Especially with the word jackass which is pretty much only used as an insult when you're not talking about donkeys. So don't call me a jackass and pretend you weren't insulting me. That's a lie. You are not "displaying indications" that you're lying. You lied. It's in black and white. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this, but if you say you talked to 2 people, then you say you talked to at least 7, you lied at least once. It's not a case of me making unfounded accusations to discredit you. Furthermore, I mentioned that you are a liar, because it is entirely relevant to this conversation. We're talking about Mass Effect 3, so if you're lying about information in Mass Effect 3, then that's relevant. Whether or not I have an inferiority complex is entirely irrelevant. So why are you bringing it up AGAIN if not to insult me? "Oh I'm sorry if I offended you by saying you have an inferiority complex... but you know, I'm pretty sure you do." This slimy "sorry not sorry" is quite offensive. Is my supposed inferiority complex relevant to this conversation? If not, then kindly stfu about it, and don't insult me again. I'm more than happy to defend my claims and my opinions. I am not going to defend my personality. I could claim that you are lying about a masters degree as. I haven't seen evidence for a lot of your claims. Like myself. I only see a wall of text. I haven't seen you post your degree online. Feel free to do so if you want to rest your case on this matter. I don't appreciate being called a liar without good reason. I've actually given evidence to support ALL of my claims. When I said what I thought the theme of the game is, I gave details from the game. When I called you a liar, I showed where you lied. When I claimed authors do not have total authority over their work, I showed it with logic, examples, and gave you links to important scholarly essays on the topic. If you think my evidence does not support my claim, then you can question that, but don't claim that you don't see evidence. I have given a HUGE abundance of evidence even on minor points. If you see a wall of text, then you do not know what evidence is. Can you show me a lot of claims I made without evidence? Cause if not, that's a lie. Your position, that organics vs synthetics is the main theme of Mass Effect, is COMPLETELY dependent on your supposed conversations. My argument does NOT rest on me having a degree. So, if you don't believe me, that's fine. With all that said, https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12046951_10100785576131210_5494754248596277221_n.jpg?oh=164d24281346979535959c99fe8b53ea&oe=57028B35 (copy paste if the link doesn't work). Because if I bring something up, I can prove it. Where's your proof? And don't claim that I just don't get how theme works unless you can show that ^_^ You are correct about brining peace to the galaxy is a major theme that overlays in the series. The theme of that was drawn from one word "Unity". As far as themes in game development goes. You remain incorrect. You ignored my God of War example. Probably the simplest example. Would you like me to give you more? I'm not correct about that because I never said that. Which goes to show why I wouldn't accept your statement from Bioware even if I believed it and cared about author's intent. What I said was that the theme was cooperation vs individualism. All of my examples were related to that, and I never said the word peace in any context. If you can't even properly relay my own message back to me, I have serious doubts that you can relay a message from Bioware. This is yet another reason why "Bioware told me so" does not hold up, even if your claim was true. Because you're showing an inability to take in and accurately convey information. And no, this is not a personal attack because it is actually relevant to the topic of whether or not I should believe your claim about the theme. And what exactly do you expect me to say about God of War? You said the theme of God of War was violence and gor or battling the greek gods. Yay. I don't see how that comment warranted any comment from me. I understand how concepts work in gaming and I didn't feel I needed to say anything. But since you insist on having me comment on every irrelevant tangent you go on, fine. You're misusing the word theme. I have never ever seen the term theme used in that way, probably because that's not what theme means. I'd call it a concept. You have concept art that gives you an idea of what the game would look like, and story concepts that draft out the story, and gameplay concepts that help shape the gameplay. If you can find links to anyone reputable talking about theme in the way you are, provide a link. Andromeda will be an all new chapter in the Mass Effect universe. It will have some relations to the original trilogy but it will feel new and fresh. We likely will not see the Reapers as it should be outside of the cycle. Keep in mind that not all the Reapers just go to one galaxy lol. The will be a new type of enemy. Should it remain unchanged. Feel free to record this. The enemies will be know as "The Revenants". The game will be heavily focused on exploration and colonisation. You will be a pathfinder. I will refrain from any more details. It will very much feel like a Mass Effect game, but it will be a very different game. It will bring in new fans and hopefully please all of the existing fans. At least that is the goal. Again, feel free to copy paste this into a note pad for next holiday season. November should be the sweet spot. It will be a more human story. Hmmmmmm... so you can't say who told you the MAIN THEME of the game, but you CAN tell me details about the story in a NEW game? Really? And you wonder why I don't believe this bs? And I am going to again call you a liar. http://www.techtimes.com/articles/109774/20151123/mass-effect-andromeda-leak-maybe-reveals-new-gameplay-information.htm http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/gaming/571570/Mass-Effect-4-News-leak-Andromeda-setting-online-Strike-Missions-premise-story You're portraying publicly leaked information as some kind of insider info. Coincidentally all of the "insider" information you have was also leaked about half a year ago. And I guess you're hoping that I don't have google or something. Please, stop trying to get me to believe bullshit. I have ample reason now to doubt every single thing you say, so unless it is backed up by evidence, expect me to not believe it. And the name of the enemies supposedly leaked is the "remnants". Not revenants. All Bioware games follow the dialogue wheel. The new Bioware IP from the main studios in Edmonton will once again use the standard Bioware formula. This game is top secret. I am happy to say that there has been no leaks as of yet. All that has and can be stated about the game is that one of the main focuses that Bioware is working on is motion capture. This is to be expected and they feel that the facial expressions in the Mass Effect and Dragon Age series did not capture the essence they wanted. Bioware is taking a look at what Naughty Dog has done with Uncharted and The Last of Us. This game will be very different from other Bioware games and will capture the best of their work. The game may or may not be more modernish. That last part is just a wild guess on my part. Oh and by all means. Please do press the print screen button and copy this into paint and save a copy. It would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately the evidence may come late, but it's better late than never. After all, as you stated. I am a pathological lair. // sarcasm. Oh wow. It may or may not be more modernish? How can that statement possibly be proven right or wrong? This paragraph says nothing concrete about the game except that it uses motion capture which falls under the realm of no shit. Even if I cared enough, there's nothing here that could really verify or not verify your insider status. What details are here that I could look back on and say "wow that liar was actually right"! That it uses the conversation wheel? Duh. Anyone could predict that. That they're going to use motion capture? No shit. Of course they're going to work on technical aspects of the game for a new gen. Bioware is taking a look at Naughty Dog games? How on Earth could I definitively say whether or not they looked at those games? The game will capture the best of their work? Subjective and vague. The game will be very different from other Bioware games? Subjective, and contradicts the idea that they will "once again use the standard Bioware formula". The game may or may not be more modernish? Lolol. Great prediction Nostredamus. That literally can't be wrong. Let me try. "The game may or may not involve lemons". Whether the game has or doesn't have lemons, I'm right. For an insider, or contact or whatever you're claiming, you've provided nothing that even comes close to worthwhile information. The idea that you have "insider" info on Mass Effect 4 (which has been leaked) that contains concrete details, and can not provide any concrete "insider" info on this game where there have not been leaks makes me further doubt your claims. It seems that your "inside" source is google, since all the inside information you're claiming to have can be found there. This comment may sound a little bit of an asshole. So I apologise in advance. You dodged my comments regarding game design and it's core themes that are expanded on. Why is this? Do you have any experience what so ever in game design, or knowledge of how the game industry works? Or do you just merely play games and talk about them online? Just a curious question that must be asked at this point. Because again, I am fabricating bullshit on such matters. You seem to flaunt your English degree around to prove your point. You don't and won't see me doing such a thing. But what do I know? I won't see you do such a thing? Lol... " I can claim that I do my own writing anomalously, which I do, and that I have a strong understanding of philosophy, which I also do. I studied what a lot of philosophy and A.I. as a form of intelligent life and becoming self-aware is one of the studies in university. I had to write one hell of an essay on that." " I do have a little side project that I do where I write and create content in an anonymous matter. What started out as a simple concept to prove a point, has surpassed my expectations and milestones. I occasionally interact with the followers and produce more content. I get to reflect on various philosophies, stories, polarity, and contrasts. I play with plethora of ideas of various themes. To say it isn't fun or intriguing would be a lie" "One of the greatest things about writing is that there is no right or wrong for an author. The challenge is to portray that vision to your audience. I fell into this trap in a recent script I wrote. I over complicated it, and was restricted to 45 seconds. The result of the draft was revealing to me. Only 40% of the people understood the meaning behind it. That is not good. That is bad. Some people might say "Oh well the 60% are stupid." I've had people say that to me. On the other hand. I picked a subject that required more time to flesh out the explanation and emotions." "As for that authority thing you posted. It made me laugh a little because I am quite the opposite of that. As someone who is quite philosophical and scientific. I delve into a lot of research to form my own opinions on various matters. " You keep talking about how much you've studied things, how much you've written, and how "scientific and philosophical you are". And I know the scientific part of that statement is wrong, because if you don't think you need to present evidence for a claim, you ain't scientific. How exactly is "I have a strong understanding of philosophy" or "as someone who is quite philosophical and scientific" and different than "I have a degree in English"? It's not any different, besides the fact that my claim to knowledge has been validated by outside sources. So don't accuse me of doing something and claim you haven't to try and make me look bad. Cause you did, and I showed it. This lying thing... it has to stop. Plus, I never made such claims as "I am a philosophical person" or "I wrote a hell of an essay" or "I play with plethora of ideas of themes" (which btw is a totally malformed sentence. Among other issues you would need to say "a" plethora of ideas. Don't use big words if you don't know how to use them). This is just bragging as it doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. I didn't use my English degree to show how smart I am. I used it to show that, unlike you, I actually do have special knowledge on a topic, in this case an author's authority, that was relevant to the conversation, and to defend myself against the claim that I don't understand theme. If you claim I don't, you are at odds with well over a dozen professors who have attested to the fact that I do. My degree is relevant, because I assure you, I did not earn an English degree without understanding one of the most basic of literary concepts. Your bragging about how scientific you are is not relevant to the conversation in any matter. Frankly, it's quite unbecoming. And I did not use my degrees to prove any point. I mentioned them, and then linked you to two scholarly essays on the matter, which I'm guessing you ignored, provided examples, explanations, and logical proof. I did use the degree to show that I am a reputable source on the matter but I also included evidence. The only "point" I used my degree to prove was to address the attack you made against my knowledge of theme. Because, yes, my degree is strong evidence that I do know a little something about that. And hey, maybe I am arrogant. And that apparent arrogance is probably just going to get worse as you lie, insult me, imply that I am lying, and question my knowledge on a subject about which I am very knowledgeable. Regardless, that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not what I say is right. So keep your personal feelings about me out of this conversation unless they somehow relate to the theme of Mass Effect 3. As for my game design experience, no, which is entirely irrelevant (I'm noticing a theme here). Because I do not need to design a game to realize the theme of this game. I never said I was a developer, and this is not a site that mainly has game developers, so you should have known from the beginning I was not talking from a development perspective. Your comments at the beginning CLEARLY indicated you were talking about story and not game design. To quote. "I'm going to need to agree to disagree because the main plot of the series was indeed the interaction of Organics and Synthetics." "The main philosophy of the series is regarding both Organics and Synthetics in various forms and points of views. Verses does not necessarily mean fighting, but comparing the two and the aspects of them." When you gave examples, you did not give game design examples, you gave story examples. You also gave most of your examples based on non-interactive media like movies and writing which show that you are (or at least were) focusing on literature and not game design. When you're talking about philosophy and plot, you are clearly talking about the story and not game design (although there is some overlap). And instead of addressing my questions about the story, you're now switching the conversation to being about game design. And now, you are again making ad hominen attacks. Instead of actually addressing what I said, you're just saying "what do you know about game design." It doesn't matter if I'm a game designer. Is what I say not true? If not, then show evidence that it is not. You have gone out of your way to talk about everything in the world besides the theme of Mass Effect 3. I want to give a shout out to Darc Requiem for stating the following. He is 100% dead on the mark. I want to thank him for pointing out something very insightful to the conversation regarding Mass Effect. This is something I brought up in my original posts. I can confirm that what he said is true. Oh but I suppose you'll call me a lair again for not being able to prove it. Either way. I want to thank Darc Requiem for his contribution do the table."The original theme of ME was dropped completely after the original lead writer, Drew Karpyshyn, left Bioware. This resulted in the sudden "organics vs. synthetics" motivational change for the Reapers. The original motivation of the Reapers was tied to the Dark Energy story point brought up in ME2. I'll try to be brief. The Reapers original motivation was to solve the Dark Energy issue. In ME2, Tali's team on Haelstrom was studying Dholen a star that was aging rapidly. The source of the rapid aging was Dark Energy. The Mass Effect Field technology that powered the ME Universe was the source. The Reapers cycle wipes out all advanced life to stop the proliferation of Dark Energy. This was to buy time to resolve the problem. Without the Cycle's the dark energy would continue to build, this would cause all stars to exihibit the aging present in Dholen. This would lead to the eventual end of life in the galaxy. Shepard original was going to have the choice destroying the Reapers and hoping the Council races could resovled the dark energy problem or letting the cycle continue to ensuring that some form of life would go on." Your constant asides about "oh but you think I'm a liar" are incredibly childish and a really silly way to deflect criticism. Look, we've already established that I don't believe your claim, and you've already admitted that it was at least partially a lie. So, either prove what you can prove, or drop it. I said this REALLY long ago. Stop repeating dubious claims you can't prove, and I won't call you a liar. Simple. But if you keep repeating absurd claims that you know I don't accept without backing it up, then don't get pissy when I call it a lie. And, notice what he did that you have not been doing. He didn't just say Drew Karpshyn said the plot was supposed to be about dark matter. He said that, and then brought up an example from the game (the aging star) to back up what he said. He is not making an argument from authority. He is looking at what the author says, and then seeing if it matches up with the game itself. Oh, and congrats on being able to confirm it. I can confirm it too because it was in a public interview he did. -_-; Again, don't pretend that public information was shared directly with you. It won't prove to me that you're being honest, and it won't make you seem any more important. I also state for a multiple times (I won't give a number because I am too lazy to look back and do not have the time, and you'll call me a lair if I am one number off :3 ) companies contain certain rules regarding the flow of information. I would like to respect that for the people I have talked to. So yes, I will refuse to give you information on this. Feel free to call me out on this one, but hey. It's better to be safe than sorry ;) In this case. Being called a liar or an idiot is much more preferred on my part. I should learn to keep my mouth shut while sharing. Perhaps you'd agree that I should be a little more.... selective? No, I'll call you a liar when you are one number off, and then five numbers off, and then admit that you lied to make your information seem more important. You admitted that you lied about that, so I don't know why you keep whining about it. You lied, I caught you, so simply drop the bs claim. But, I don't really care if you say you spoke to someone at Bioware, or if you say god came down and told you the plot. But, if you want me to actually take what you say into consideration and use it to inform my view, then yes, you need to prove it. To suggest that I should just accept it without evidence is insulting my intelligence. I didn't want to say it before, but I actually spoke to at least 8 people from Bioware, who all told me you're wrong. Unless one of us can provide evidence to support ourselves, then both claims are equally valid. If we accept yours, we have to accept mine. If we reject mine, we have to reject yours. I think this is enough for now. I am sorry that I did not address as much as possible this time. I intentionally did that because of the amount of time we spent on arguing. You said we were going off subject , so I turned this back on subject. Feel free to say I'm dodging your questions. I feel that it's time that if we are going to talk about Mass Effect. We shall return to the subject of Mass Effect as you have subtlety suggested when I went off subject. Forgive me for my hasty reply.
2. Whether or not you talked to someone at Bioware , there should still be evidence in the games themselves that organics vs synthetics is the main theme. Right? 3. Following # 2, do you have any evidence that, from a design and literary perspective, organics vs synthetics is the main theme? Prove this, using evidence from the games. 4. Should people accept claims without any sort of evidence? If they should not, why do you keep insisting I should and that I am "desperate" for arguing against your claim? These are really simple questions that I've brought up several different times. |
First and foremost. I will apologise for taking a day to reply. I was at a seminar last night and I will not go into details on this. After all I would be called a liar. On the subject of lying. Personally it is the most insulting thing a person can say to me. Yet, you claim to be insulted that I hold doubts for you. I stated that you had an "inferiority complex" based on the assumption of the way you are stating your words to me, and how you seem to be quite argumentive in general from what I've observed. Just as you call me a liar through a basic assumption. I assumed by the fact you consistently call me a liar and my reluctance to admit to it, you were hinting at the idea that I was a pathological liar. I do not see you admitting to your faults. Perhaps I should be using the word assumption more in context while speaking to you. I continue to go off topic, because you continue to do the same. After all. Even you stated that this conversation should be directly related to Mass Effect 3.
Regarding to the leaks online. About a year ago a website know as AGB released a very lengthy detailed outline in the shape of a press release regarding Mass Effect Andromeda. It is far more in-depth than the links you provided me. They also leaked Dragon Age Inquisition well in advance. I would suggest looking on that site, they do not have a search function and you'll need to hit the back button a lot. Easily a hundred times. I'm not going through that effort for you after the tones that I find quite disrespectful. The information is indeed out there. I can also tell you right now that the person who leaked DA is no longer at the Edmonton studios and is now at Bioware Montreal. That is the studio who is now helming the next chapter in the Mass Effect series, while the main studios in Edmonton is working hard on the new IP. Thank god that the leaker is gone.
On the subject of lying.
"1.
an intentionally false statement."
By that definition I have not lied, however!
"used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression."
I fully admit that I did the above. I could also alter the number to 8 right now. Unfortunately I do not consider saying hello as a sufficient reason. I also do not count the 4 guys I met at an Expo one time. Really? Want me to go to 12? Blasphemy! So yes. I could have raised that number again without lying. But it would have been dishonest in a way that would be a great deal to myself. I am disappointed enough to raise the number. For example the conversation with Trent, who went on to form Beamdog, said next to nothing about the Mass Effect series. He was very focused on the Baluder's Gate franchise and, if I remember right, Neverwinter Nights. Beamdog remains committed to spiritually continuing the Baulder's Gate series. So yes, it was "deceptive" of me to add him to the number. I figure, what the hell. It was more dishonesty, than a lie, as communication with a Bioware founder who's been there since the beginning is true. I twisted the meaning as a double meaning. Communication on Mass Effect was deceptive. Indeed I have had conversations regarding Mass Effect and it's development. I have very good reasons for being hesitant for going into details in these matters. This should be blantly obvious to you and yes I have been dodging the reason as to why, I will continue to do so.
From where I stand. I gave this information to people who wanted to hear or learn something regarding the game. I am glad to know that I didn't waste my time, and I am sorry that you disagree and continue to disagree. That is fine with me. Of course you'll twist the knife with that, but really. At this point it's a lost cause imho.
On another subject of a lie. I could faithfully call you a liar right now. You claim to "not care". No one in their right mind will go through the effort if they didn't care. You make lengthy replies and dedicate time to this, therefore you care. I do the same, therefor I care. This really doesn't get any simpler. Does it feel good to know that you fall under definition 1 as that was likely intentional, under my own assumption. Rather than "deceptive" as I fully admit to doing, and have done so when I explained my "marketing" bullshit comparison to make myself look better. Again, very very simple concept. No explanation should be required.
I can clearly tell that you don't know how a theme works, or is dictated in the gaming industry from a developers point of view. I stand corrected in this matter. Perhaps in the field that you work in, it takes a different point of view. A theme is dictated by the base foundation for which the game is developed on. In gaming a theme is often the derives around the concept and idea of the gameplay that leads into the story. Yes it is true that with Bioware the story comes first. I will admit this. However a lot is changed in the course of the development of their games to fit the idea and concept. Which is the base theme the game is focused around. It is often an idea that can be summed up even on a napkin and then evolves as development progresses. All of these concepts are first used in a "prototype", which is a stage before Alpha. Trust me, this stuff is nothing to look at, it's laughable and may even make one puke. Infact the story isn't even there, only a base guideline which supports the intentional theme of the original vision and message the developers wish to convey to the audience. In this case, what I stated about theme from a developer point of view is correct. I still stand by this claim and will continue to do so until you prove me wrong in such a manner. There is tons of story in a Bioware game. Lot's of messages, side quests and stories for the gamer to engage in, some of it is quarterbacking (I will explain this if you do not know the term), luckily Bioware tries to lay low on this, DA is a bad example of where it failed. In Mass Effect the concept of Synthetic and Organics arguably spreads through almost everything. Through that Unity and Galactic peace became major themes. Which is supported and glued together by the idea, the base concept, and reoccurring (main) theme of the game. It's the needle and thread of the series. I am sorry if you were unable to get this, but that was the message and intention of the developer. It's what they wanted to convey to their audience. I personally think they did a good job at it. From your perspective, they did a poor job.
Now I'm going to ask you to ask a few questions this time around. If you can answer ALL of these correctly, then I will concede in this argument and admit you are right. Just remember that themes in gaming is very different than you may expect. I am asking for the base theme, most which is decided before the proto-type phase. I doubt this will be a challenge for you. Some of them can be reoccurring themes, none the less they are themes, and without understanding these themes you will not see success in the gaming industry. You will fall flat on your face. By the way. If any one answers before you, it's a bust, so please let JWeinCom plead his case.
1) Metroid Prime, Elderscrolls, Myth
2) Metal Gear Solid, Call of Duty, Age of Empires
3) System Shock, Silent Hill, Bioshock
4) Mirrors Edge, Assassin's Creed, Dying Light
5) God of War, No More Heroes, Soldier of Fortune
6) Grand Theft Auto, Twisted Metal, Gran Turismo
7) Uncharted, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider
8) Fire Emblem, The Legend of Zelda, The Witcher
9) Dues Ex, Remeber Me, Snatcher
10) Castlevania, Lunar Knights, BloodRayne
11) Zone of Enders, Armor Core, Ranger X
12) Advent Rising, Mass Effect (This ones gets 2 because it's a rare theme and Halo counts, but is not a core theme)
13) Watch Doges, Batman Arkham Games, True Crime
14) The Order of 1886, Kid Icarus, Altered Beast
15) Audiosurf, Brutal Legend, Rock Band
Good luck. You got 15 shots. Some are tricky but I gave you a few simple freebies. Get them all right and you rest your case. If you get half of them right, I'll give you some credit, and even respect. I'm more than happy to share the answers if you give a fair attempt to all of them, you may even learn something about game development.
Go on. Spin those wheels xD :)
