UNCHARTED vs THE LAST OF US

[DivinePaladin]

Porcupine_I said:

DivinePaladin said:

If the developers are going to claim that you'll feel remorse and that these are living people, I should feel bad for killing some of them. Fighting Henry in a cutscene doesn't make me feel shitty like if I had to kill a perfectly innocent (as innocent as the era would allow) person. Literally every enemy outside of the final set in Spring is out solely for blood when it comes to the playable sections of the game. The segment with the truck exemplifies this; ambush to kill and then raid supplies afterwards. No thought into whether the effort is worth the kill, it's a kill for the hunt. You might be right and I may have either missed or forgotten some of the notes saying otherwise about the Raiders, but any note I felt bad about normally involved somebody who's already dead. The stories were much better told for characters we never see than the ones we fight. Left Behind did that especially well. Complaining about shoe size still comes off as dickish to me compared to, say, if the same Raider had said the people they killed didn't have enough supplies on them. Context is everything with that. Again, they did this with the notes in Left Behind very well, and it did a good job immersing me into a much shallower environment. 

 

There's no excuse in a game so focused on human interaction for every character you interact with in gameplay being a total asshole that you MUST interact with. Killing thousands of people aside, because video game, it's very rare to find an area where you could actually role play as a less brutal Joel and avoid killing entirely because the AI is static; that's admittedly a tad nitpicky, but if Druckmann wants me to feel like everybody's a real person, I don't wanna kill unless I absolutely have to. Even that option alone would have made many of my issues better because it gives players the option to develop Joel as they see fit instead of being forced into choices the player might disagree with. 

 

As for your last request there, nice job trying big big to deflect the subject from the game at hand. I don't have a stock set of standards for every game, even within a genre; they're gonna change based on what I hear before and after the game comes out. I'm holding this game to these standards because it's called the greatest game of all time when it has too many flaws to deserve that in my opinion. I hold Ocarina to higher standard than Majora's Mask too because of the same reason. Moreover, I have these standards for the game since it was projected a certain way before release by ND and accepted this way by the gaming journalists and fans. If I'm promised sex, I'm gonna expect some damn sex; don't try and tell me I'm unreasonable or cherry picking when they give me a kiss on the cheek and expect that to get the job done. Maybe you find more out of a kiss on the cheek than I do, and that's totally respectable, and it says nothing different about you than it does that I expect the sex I was told I'd get.

 

Now I DID get the sex I wanted regarding this particular issue, at the end of the game. But that was also a punch in the balls since it went against everything "my" Joel had been throughout my playthroughs. The lack of agency in that final segment infuriated me more than I felt bad about killing the people I'm referring to. If I do ever get around to finishing my Grounded run, I'll be ending it right before the actual ending. I mean, not really, because if I'm that close to the end on Grounded like hell am I not gonna take the trophy and run lol, but you get what I'm saying. 

I don't get some things you are saying.  You want to kill innocent people so you can feel bad for them? You wanted to kill the Women and children fleeing to the church from your rampage in winter? Is that what you are saying? You killed the people who already started to doubt David's leaderhip, but of course they were still your enemies. You wanted to have the option to kill the people at the hydroelectric plant? Is that what you are saying? I really don't get it. How do you even know what every single man you killed was like? did you talk to them before you killed them? Why didn't you sneak past them? There were plenty of options where you didn't have to fight them.

This game goes into a lot of detail explaining why things are how they are. And if you expected "Sex" because someone told you there will be sex, maybe you just waited for them to come to you and you missed out because you didn't want to go and look for it. I'm not really sure about that whole sex reference though.

I won't comment on the plot of Zelda games, because i didn't play any of the 3D Zeldas, but i'm pretty certain they don't hold up in the number of different animations for certain actions or AI for that matter.

 

I never stated Zelda did so. Not sure why you're missing my point entirely here, it's pretty simple. In a game claimed to be so deep and realistic by everybody, developer or otherwise, the lack of variety in a simple character animation is pretty lazy. That's about as nitpicky as I get though, but it legitimately does get annoying that such little effort is put into the presentation of a key element. 

 

And, again, no. I don't WANT to kill anybody in this sort of game. The developers make me kill hundreds to thousands of humans, yes, and that's unavoidable. However, if the developer claims you're going to feel remorse for killing people who are only trying to survive, just like you are. But then everybody we fight is flat, and they always kill with no remorse themselves, and often enjoy the hunt. The no remorse part would be fine on its own because that can be seen as commentary, but then the latter part sort of spoils that argument. 

 

I'm saying, and have been saying, that I'd like to see a character develop through killing somebody who's truly just killing the other to get by. The scene in the hotel comes close, but it's not Joel who gets the development, as usual. When we're meant to feel remorse for our kills, we should at some point have to fight people who are truly just trying to survive, instead of only raiders who are shown to have very little in the way of morals throughout all of the game. It doesn't make me contemplate my actions when I'm forced to be a one man army against a group where I see only assholes, and since ND claimed several times that you'd feel bad because these people all have lives and are just trying to survive, that's a glaring issue to me. Again, if you want to be blind to it, more power to you, but I'm not going to.