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mornelithe on 17 July 2015
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sc94597 said:
mornelithe said:
 

It's not really an argument, it's a statement of fact.  Guns are not a requirement for hunting, which was a direct critique upon your assertion that somehow it was, making arguments and then moving the goalposts isn't exactly the best way to discuss these things.  I'm not really sure the comparison to cars/horses is apt, while a bullet travels far, far faster than an arrow or bolt, in terms of how quickly it puts down an animal, you're not talking the difference between a car going from point A to point B, and a horse going from point A to point B.  Once you pull the trigger/release the arrow, in human terms, you're still field dressing a dead animal w/in the next 5 minutes (provided aim/accuracy etc...)

Yes, the critique was given, and that's how this debate needs to happen (which is me saying Good job).  A freeflow exchange of ideas, solutions etc...  not shutting down discussion or taking topics completely off the table.  The person who said mass shootings don't happen in Europe was clearly wrong, and I've never made that claim.  I also never said banning guns alone will fix this issue, so, sorry but I'm not really going to continue that line of thought.  It's nothing I've said, nor alluded to in any of my posts.

I would suggest going after the black markets, far, far harder.  Like, 1 strike and severe penalties.  Severe.  And I agree with legalizing all drugs, that would solve several problems.  As it stands now, with the legalization of Marijuana (fully or medicinal), most cartels in Mexico have already shifted to harder drugs, as they cannot compete with the price or quality in the US, and the profit margins just aren't there.  I would suggest we already have the evidence we need to support decriminalizing all drugs and putting the billions/year into treatment, education etc...

I take it you don't know much about hunting. Bow hunting is a much harder task than hunting with a gun. It takes a lot of skill, only the most experienced hunters put the time and effort to learn it. This is also true of using a car versus. using a horse and buggy. One is much simpler and more efficient than the other. And no, unless you made the ridiculous logical assumption that I thought, for example, that guns are the only means to do these things, I am not moving my goalpost. I said what I meant, you are conflicting with ones right to these things by limiting how they can do it.

Severe penalities haven't really worked with anything else to be honest. And with the age of the internet, 3d printing, and a more decentralized economy in general, black markets are harder to control, not easier. The best thing to do is to give everybody the same power over their lives that those through the black market achieve. I agree 100% on the drug issue. Certain countries in Europe, like Portugal, did this ten years ago. And they noticed great affects. If we are going to compare the U.S and Europe on gun control, we should do the same with regards to drug criminialization, which is much harsher and counterproductive in the U.S.

Your assumptions would be misplaced, and this isn't about me anymore than it's about you (which is why I'm not trying to attack your intelligence or experience, in any way...I would hope you would afford me the same courtesy).  It's about what's best for the Country.  Individuals find that quite often legislation is enacted/amended that doesn't specifically address their grievances, or impacts their lives in ways that aren't always beneficial.  That's called living in a society.  Give and take.  As far as hunting is concerned, the skill involved is irrelevant, there are alternatives to guns (That's not good enough for you, I understand that...it's how I feel though, so you know, it is what it is).  You also didn't address that it takes even MORE skill, to shoot straight under fire, to manage adrenaline and stress etc...  so there's that.   Deer, don't shoot back.

Again, I don't have all the answers, but I'm not entirely sure I believe that just arming everyone is the solution.  It also ignores several of the other issues I presented.  Remember, Adam Lanza killed his mother and took her guns, which were locked up.  So, even the black market solution isn't a cureall (just like I don't think arming everyone is a cureall either).  This is a complex issue, that requires more than just one fix.

Regardless, no matter that we disagree on certain points, this, what you and I have just done here, is what America needs most of all.  The ability to talk to each other, without flipping our shit, and just attacking each other.  I think the lack of ability to discuss these topics is a bigger threat to the country than anything else, frankly.