Wyrdness said:
midrange said:
If you compare melee to smash 4 now, it may seem that way, but remember that a lot of smash 4 right now is experimentation. Look at earlier melee tournaments (even some recent ones), and you will see zelda, marth, jigglypuff, peach, dr mario, luigi. Had diddy went unchanged, he would have become a less extreme metaknight for this game. Greninja was also nerfed very early on, so I guess its hard to see how good he was pre nerf.
dair cancelling is not the same as l cancelling as I don't think it applies to all moves. Perfect pivot and fox trotting are also not as beneficial as wave dashing or dash dancing. The pivot near the edge for an edge grab is cool tho.
People may find that smash Wii u is more competitive, but that is something I cannot agree with due to how much the game supports coming back over punishing those who play well. This was intentionally sakurai's decision. Stuff like the rage mechanic, unpublishable rolls, and less spikes/meteors just show that the game was designed around not being able to punish mistakes and having to avoid the enemies "comeback."
Don't get me wrong, I play both of them extensively, I try to main shulk and lucario, but I keep sonic and diddy as back up because I know I have to. But playing melee just requires more technical skil and precision since one mistake can kill.
I am also not trying to say one is better than the other. I acknowledge them as different games with their own benefits
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So lets get this straight because Smash 4 allows comebacks more often you think that's less competitive? That's the same argument bitter Third Strike fans threw at SFIV when in actual fact the game like Smash IV had a different approach and they simply weren't good at it that's what it comes down to. The game was design to be balanced not broken like Melee, the comeback factor makes the game more competitive as you can just sit on your lead you have to work right until the match is over, it infact allows the opponent to punish you if you become complacent.
Diddy even when he was top tier was still not winning many tournaments in a row in fact if you remove Zero the weren't really any Diddy players winning, that's because of balance, Diddy loses hard to characters like Pitt, Luigi, Mario etc... DAIR canceling allows combo situations that under normal circumstances don't occur, I don't think you've seen Smash IV's perfect pivot because it causes a sliding motion like wave dashing.
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The problem isn't in allowing comebacks, the problem is in encouraging comebacks. This is why many people requested a counter to the "blue shell" comeback in mario kart. If someone makes a comeback in chess, it is really impressive because he did not depend on a mechanic to help him do it. If I string 15 hits to get lucario above 120 hp, is it far for him to knock me out in 3 due to rage mechanic and lack of spikes to close the game?
diddy and sheik were big dude. There is no denying that. My friend and I complained because I wanted to main shulk and he wanted to main duck hunt, but despite being above b-tier characters, they simply couldn't match up to diddy. Nerfs and buffs are also a double edged sword since people who mained diddy now have to adapt. Auto cancel is a good option, but it does not work for all cases. I know about perfect pivoting, and that, like fox trotting, do not compare to wavedashing. There is a reason why its not predominant in tournaments, it got potential, but clearly won't have the impact of wavedashing.
