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Esiar said:
JWeinCom said:
Seems noone is really trying to give evidence of a god. Kind of disappointing.

I think the best arguments for God are the universe itself and maybe the Cosmological Argument.


The universe itself would not indicate any creator.  Even if it did, you'd have to make an incredible stretch to go from "the universe might have had a creator" to "God (I'm assuming you mean Judeo Christain god since you used capital G) exists", and he has the traits described in the bible.  

As for the cosmological argument, it's self defeating.  It goes something like everything has a cause, the universe has a cause, so the universe has a cause, and that cause is god.  So, everything has to have a cause... Ummmmmm... except god.  

Basically, the first premise, everything has a cause, conflicts with the last premise, there is something that happened without a cause.  And of course you can say "oh but god is outside of time", but now you have to prove that something can exist outside of time.  

Then if you want to use that argument to prove any specific god, you have to explain why you would be able to make any determinations about the nature of the uncaused cause.  The cosmological argument, at best, gets you to a deistic god, and even that's a huge stretch.  

And, we do not know that the universe "began to exist" as is put forth in many versions of the argument.  The current understanding of the universe's origin, The Big Bang, does not really suggest it was the beginning of the universe.  The Big Bang Theory supposes that the universe existed as a singularity, and then it exploded into the universe as we know it.