o_O.Q said:
JWeinCom said:
o_O.Q said:
had to reply to this but hitler was a humanist/atheist and i can't really think of anyone that disputes this
its funny that people believe that without religion we'd be living in utopia when the regimes that have killed the most people were humanistic/atheistic
"so it doesn't shock me the least bit that people would be persuaded to believing a bunch of made up nonsense that's against the Bible."
well from my perspective christians generally do not understand their own religion so how could outsiders expect to be any better?
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Hitler was a humanist? As in someone who valued human life? Seriously?
Hitler was very clearly not a humanist, and we have no evidence to suggest he was an atheist. In any public statement Hitler ever made, he adhered to Christianity. He argued for religious instruction, had close ties with the catholic church, had a large personal library of books regarding Jesus which were all well worn.
“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded
by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and
summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest
not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord
at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the
Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight
against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with
deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact
that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As
a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have
the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is
anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is
the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty
to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and
work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only
for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning
and see these men standing in their queues and look into their
pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very
devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two
thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people
are plundered and exposed.”
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”
“Any violence which does not spring from a spiritual base, will be
wavering and uncertain. It lacks the stability which can only rest in
a fanatical outlook.”
“….the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil
assumes the living shape of the Jew.”
But actions speak louder than words, yeah? Let's check out some of the banned books in Germany...
"6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Haeckel)."
- Guidelines from Die Bucherei 2:6 (1935), page 279.
Darwinism was banned.
"c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk."
- Blacklist for Public Libraries and Commercial Lending Libraries
Fighting League for German Culture: Guidelines
(Source: Stadtbibliothek Koblenz, 1993; pp. 5-7)
Anything that was against Christianity was banned.
Hitler never spoke against god or against Jesus. He did speak against Christianity as an institution, although these quotes all come from one book, Hitler's Table Talk. This book relies on anecdotal accounts, and there are passages that were entirely made up from the translator of the French version, which the English version is based on.
Of course, whether or not you believe Hitler was a Christian will depend on your definition of Christianity. If believing in Jesus makes you a Christian, then, yeah he probably was. Hitler made some changes that definitely go against the normal practice of Christianity, so you could make an argument that, while a believer, he would not qualify as a Christion. There is some limited information to suggest Hitler was a pagan, but there is really nothing to suggest that he was an atheist. So, now that you know better, quit repeating that BS.
And, if Hitler WAS an atheist, then I'd have to wonder why he was so invested in lying about it. Even IF he was an atheist in his private life, then we have to wonder why Hitler felt it necessary to publicly promote the Church so strongly. Hitler did not simply tolerate Christianity in public, he encouraged it, and wanted religious instruction in all schools. So, why would a man who privately thought religion was BS, and publicly wanted to kill millions of people, be so invested in promoting (his version of) Christianity?
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lol calm down hitler being an atheist doesn't make you a terrible person by proxy
No, but it does make for a dishonest attempt to associate atheism with Naziism, and it is blatantly false.
"There is some limited information to suggest Hitler was a pagan"
correct and what was the object of worhip of just about all of the pagan religions? the sun? lol yes but that was at the start of these religions eventually these people came to worship the sun as a metaphor for the intellect of man
Ok. What does this have to do with atheism? Atheism is a rejection of anything, usually supernatural, which does not have evidence backing it. An atheist may or may not worship the intellect of man, but that would be independent of him being an atheist or not.
in other words the old pagan religions became atheistic they ultimately worshiped the intellect of man as god
Ummmmm... no? Some pagans became atheists as they gained knowledge. But, the path goes from Paganism to Christianity as the Romans converted to Christianity. Paganism was generally incorporated into the Catholic Church. Again, atheists do not worship the intellect of man. They do not, as a rule, worship anything.
this is where the story of adam and eve came from
adam and eve originally are ignorant and lack knowledge however after the light bearer or lucifer interacts with them they them gain access to the intelliect or the light
I do not see how this connects to atheism. It seems to show that Judaism and by extension Christianity are based on Paganism, not atheism.
anyway does your admission that hitler was probably a pagan not contradict your claim that he was a christian? does that not tell you something? lol
I didn't say that Hitler was probably a pagan. I said there was limited evidence to suggest he may have been a pagan. In many cases there are pieces of evidence on two sides of an argument. It is possible that Hitler was also influenced by both pagan ideas and christianity.
its amazing to me that you could really believe that hitler was a christian when for one the main symbol associated with him is obviously pagan in nature
the swastika and the winged sun disk 
if he was christian why adopt this over the cross?
He actually speaks of this, and part of the reason is aesthetics. At any rate using a symbol does not necessarily endorse that religion. The red cross is an agnostic organization that uses the cross (and crescent) as their symbol. Furthermore, Hitler needed a symbol that would solely be associated with Nazi Germany, so using a symbol associated with Christianity as a whole would not have made sense. Naziism also used Christianity in other contexts. For example, God With Us, on each Nazi uniform.
Of course, you can use this to support the idea that Hitler was a pagan, but it is hardly defining evidence, and it has to be weighed against everything else.
the swastika has a history that is estimated around 12000 years 
and the winged sun disk has also been present through history 
the idea of the super race or the super man is also rooted in the occult these are all things any one can look up if they are interested enough
the connection of these things to the nazi movement in germany and also to hitler is too long to post here
Interesting, but really irrelevant to this. The use of that symbol is some evidence but hardly definitive.
as for the evidence that he is christian well that appears to conflict with the evidence that suggests he's pagan whether one believes one or the other depends on their own discretion
Possibly, but it is also possible that he took ideas from both sources. At any rate, it is clear he was not an atheist, which was the original point I was making.
i will concede that his quotes and his apparent promotion of christianity is interesting and i cannot at the moment explain this but to me to call the nazi movement a christian movement is silly for obvious reasons
I did not say that the Nazi movement was a Christian movement, but that Hitler was most likely a Chrisitian. While there was a lot of use of Christianity to support it, it was by and large, a nationalistic movement.
edit: i'd also add that catholicism was a perversion of the old christian religion because it was combined with pagan beliefs to produce one religion for both groups of people
Then that would perfectly explain why Hitler would be influenced by both Pagan and Christian beliefs, would it not?
this is why the connections between egyptian beliefs and chrisitianity i spoke of earlier exist in the first place
and i'm not saying this to imply that as a result i believe that the nazi movement was christian because that is demonstrably nonsense
I didn't say, or mean to imply, that Naziism was a Christian movement. But, it is blatantly false to claim that Hitler was an atheist, because, as you seem to agree with here, he most certainly was not.
