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SpokenTruth said:

I think this phrase is the problem.  The "limits" are within the ability of the programmers, the API (if applicable), the programming language itself, time (expereince with the hardware), etc...

There are hobbyist coders that are doing things on legacy computers and consoles that those devices were never expected to be capable of doing.  I've seen an Atari 2600 do FMV.

My point is there is always more than can be done on hardware than we ever get to see during a console generation.  We never see the hardware pushed to its abolute limits.  We only see the hardware pushed to the limits of the time, money and expertise of the programmers at the time.


We're on the same page then. 

When it comes to pushing the hardware to its limits, for me it's not only being capable of displaying certain effects and whatnot. It's that, coupled with maximizing the usage of the hardware components. Gotta make that hardware cry from all that heat. If a dev manages to use an effect in their games, that hardly anyone else does, well, that's a nice effect. But is the hardware heating under the hood? What percentage of the CPU and GPU is the game utilizing? If hardly is used, the game isn't pushing the hardware.  That's how I see it.