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sc94597 on 27 March 2015
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Wonktonodi said:
sc94597 said:

The point is, they are not denying service because the other person is a sinner, they are denying it because they believe if they partake in the ceremony it is a sin (immoral) on their own personal part as well. A more extreme analogy of this, which isn't exactly the same thing (no analogies are), is whether or not a doctor will give an abortion after a certain trimester in states where such abortions are legal. Many doctors will refuse to give an abortion after say the first trimester, not because it is illegal in their state, but because they don't want to morally. Should these doctors be forced to treat all pregnant woman the same, and enact the abortion? Should they lose their license if they refuse? Another more close to the point analogy is the question of whether or not a minister will perform a gay wedding or not is discrimination. Do you think all ordained ministers should perform gay weddings? If not, then why should all wedding cake producers make wedding cakes for gay weddings? Both entities are paid to perform a task, even if it is only a tip in the minster's case. Should all church buildings be willing to have gay wedding in them as well? 

In my opinion things like this hurt the LGBT movement. They make it harder for LGBT to be accepted, and it creates a mentality of us vs. them filled with resent on the religious persons end and resent on the non-heterosexual person's end. 

1. makeing a cake is not the same as performing a ceremony, it is a buisness transaction.  Making cakes is not a religious function. I already said if the buiness was totally religious I would understand but considering that many only draw the line at gay wedding and not beyond, I do have issues with it it. like  here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-oregon_n_3355314.html  I also don't have problems with religious leaders not performing mariages for people of other religions, mixed religions etc. I would have a problem with a county clerk refusing to issue a mairage license do to personal convictions though.

2. People being able to refuse buiness already hurts the LGBT comunity, laws protecting them while possibly leading to backlash and resentment for a while will diminish in time. Yes some of thesse places have increased buisness for a while, but others have to catch up with the times.

1. If the cake owner needs to be involved in what they perceive to be a religious function (a wedding) then I think it is perfectly normal for them to have religious beliefs on the matter. Furthermore, having a wedding at a church isn't free, if you don't already belong to the church. It certainly is a business transaction as well, just a more covert one. The cake maker isn't just making a generic wedding cake. They need to make it specific for the couple's demands, and it must fit with the rest of the wedding, which they might view as partaking in the ceremony. I agree, I have issues with county clerks not giving mariage licenses as well. That is why I support legally-recognized gay marriage. I don't expect every person to support gay marriage though, and I realize that these things must come incremental or otherwise they'll run from them. 

2. One of the best slogans found in the LGBT movement is ,"if two people of the same sex are married it won't affect you." I stand by this slogan quite a bit. However, if we are to start forcing people to partake in the marriage (in their eyes) or lose their business, it does indeed affect those people. This creates even more fear and paranoia on the part of the anti-LGBT people, and it leads them to call their legislators to create laws like this one. The best option for us is to say, "alright, then I will take my business elsewhere and tell all of my straight friends who will be having weddings about your overly traditionalist beliefs." Instead an atmosphere was created that frightens these fundamentalists and by the power of democracy they got a less than desirable law passed, which can make things much worst for the LGBT community.