FACTS vs. FICTION – Volume 1

[johnlucas]

OK after a little break in the action, let's reignite this conversation.
Like I promised, st0pnsw0p gets the first reply to his January 16, 2015 post.

st0pnsw0p said:

Funny thing, if you replace Wii U with 3DS or mobile gaming, this is actually somewhat accurate, but there's no way in hell this could ever apply to Wii U. 3DS and smartphones fill the secondary system role much better than Wii U does, even by your standards. Both of them have way more games you can't play on PS4/XB1/PC than Wii U does, they're both less powerful and they're both (usually) cheaper than Wii U.

Yes, handheld consoles will ALWAYS overlap home consoles because they serve a distinct function home consoles can't match.
You are correct there. AND smartphones can overlap for the same reasons. A distinct platform that gives you a type of gaming you don't quite get on one platform you choose. True again.
But if you think Wii U can't serve a distinct function in consoles to a significant degree you are mistaken.

The Wii U is the ONLY Handheld Home Console. The ONLY console that can play itself WITHOUT a TV—without any external assistance.
The uniqueness of the platform will draw others to it as the games show off its winning features.
That uniqueness creates natural exclusivity by design which attracts people to the platform whether they pick Wii U as their main console or whether they pick it as their secondary console. From each audience, Wii U's games will have a 'must play, must own' factor due to its uniqueness.
Players won't get to have these experiences anywhere else, so sales of the platform rise.

Nintendo's slow start getting the library over to Wii U won't let you see this FACT right now.
But that Wii U library is going to be the most anticipated, most desired library this year.
And this year they're not gonna be spread sparsely throughout the year, they're coming back to back.
Same effect that 3DS had like I said many times before.

Once people flood into the system Wii U's advantages will shine.
How many people will be shocked to see that you don't have to pay a fee to play online?
How many people will be charmed by that Miiverse full of talented drawings?
How will those amiibos take the Wii U into another dimension?
How fresh will the Wii U ecosystem look when the others start looking stale?

st0pnsw0p said:

Completely false. DVDs, BluRay, MP3s, CDs and Casettes became standards without being forced on people simply because the consumers and manufacturers agreed that they were better than the competition. And it's hardly forced on anyone if you can simply buy one of the systems without it. Same applies to the following paragraphs.,/p>

If the manufacturers agree to produce towards one standard, then that forces the customers.
If the manufacturers phased out DVD's leaving you only Blu-ray to choose from, then Blu-ray would be the disc choice because you can't find anything else on the shelves. If Sony was able to get manufacturers to use its Betamax standard, then we would not have known VHS.

In that last silly format war between HD DVD & Blu-ray, the Blu-ray backers outmuscled the HD DVD backers.
When HD DVD was not seen as much in the stores, the customer only had a natural choice to make: the remaining one.
Customers only have as much choice as the manufacturers give them.
What if there was a disc format better than both Blu-ray AND HD DVD?

But those audio/video industries are much more open than the videogame industry is.
There are only 3 major console makers whereas there are dozens of major audio/video format makers & audio/video player makers.

The fact that every controller since the Famicom/NES follows Nintendo's standards means that Nintendo's weight weighs heavy on this industry.
Sooner or later, all console manufacturers conform to Nintendo's standards one way or another.
So those in the 1990s who didn't like analog stick controls (like one of my relatives) had to accept them eventually once the other manufacturers added those same analog controls to their controllers.
The one who complained about Super Mario 64's controls would either have to stop modern gaming or learn how to use one of those analog sticks.

And Nintendo has that standard-making weight because they make them the default controller of their systems.
They give you limited choice AFTERWARDS but push you to use their default controller over all else.
You're GOING to learn that Control Pad, Joystick boy!
You're GOING to learn the A, B, X, Y, L, R set up, A/B boy!
You're GOING to learn that Control Stick, Control Pad boy!
You're GOING to learn Offskew Analog, Dual Analog boy!
You're GOING to learn that motion-control Wiimote, Standard pad boy!
You're GOING to learn that Touchscreen, Button boy!
You're GOING to learn that Upad, "Traditional" boy!

That's how they make those standards that control this industry. They give you no choice but to learn it in order to play their games.
And their games have such a compelling quality that you will take the time to learn the new standards.
If you think you can sidestep them, you'll learn like my relative did that's there no escape.
The competition has to co-opt these controls to prevent Nintendo from cultivating an impenetrable market all to themselves.
So the console you escaped to will become just like the one you escaped from.
The videogame industry is a much more intimate industry than audio/video manufacturing.
And Nintendo's the big fish in this small pond.

st0pnsw0p said:

Nintendo didn't force their controllers on people, with the exception of the NES controller because they had a monopoly on the market during the 3rd gen. Anyone who valued controllers highly enough and who thought that Nintendo's controllers were awful could have simply bought one of the competing consoles, and in fact, many did. Especially during the Wii era. Same thing applied to their competitors: if you didn't like the genesis controller, you could always get a SNES. If you didn't like the Playstation controller, you could always get an N64. Our you could still buy it if the console had something that made up for bad controllers.

I sort of got ahead of myself but like I said in the earlier paragraphs, Nintendo DID force their controllers.
By making the NES controller the default controller, they forced it as the standard.
They didn't give you Joysticks until much later with the NES Advantage.
They made their games to work BETTER with the standard NES controller than all others.
Harder to get that needed Super Mario Bros. precision on the NES Advantage's joystick.

Same goes for Wiimote. There's a reason they made the Classic Controllers sort of clunky.
They didn't want you gravitating towards them. They wanted you to learn that Wiimote.
That's how you make standards. That's how they can continue to steer the course of input design decade after decade.

And like I said just before in the last section, you can't run forever. The competition co-opts Nintendo's standards sooner or later.
So you're effectively playing with what you didn't want to play with on a non-Nintendo system.
Sega got rid of their Genesis-styled offshoot of the NES standard by the time they got to the Sega Dreamcast with its color-coded diamond-patterned action buttons—just like Super Famicom/SNES.
They already added SNES' L & R triggers on their Saturn. It was only a matter of time.

Sony had to get in line REAL QUICK in the N64 era. That original doubled up SNES controller they had called the PlayStation controller would not stack up to N64's functional analog Control Stick.
So they quickly added a couple of analog sticks to their PS1 controller & called it Dual Analog.
Then Nintendo drops the masterpiece known as Star Fox 64 with its vibrating Rumble Pak & Sony said "Oh my God! Again?"
They quickly revision this recent revision into a rumbling controller called the DualShock.
They just put out the Dual Analog & now it's obsolete? Hahahaha.

DualShock 4 has so many Wii touches with its internal speaker & its Light Bar so reminiscent of Wiimote's infrared pointer.
That's not counting the motion-control aspects it has from the Sixaxis AKA DualShock 3.
And Sony is trying to repurpose the VERY Wiimote-like Move in its Project Morpheus campaign.

Microsoft couldn't WAIT for Nintendo's Control Pad patent to expire so that they could get the true Nintendo Cross on their XBox One controller.

There's nowhere to escape. This is Nintendo's industry.
They all bow down sooner or later.

st0pnsw0p said:

True, to a degree, but the basic layout of movement buttons on the left, action buttons on the right and start button right in the middle predates the NES controller and even the Donkey Kong arcade cabinet. The controllers used by Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Sega, and many others, have mostly been based on the controls used by arcade cabinets, with modifications to make them portable, as evidenced by the layouts. Even motion controls can find their precursors in the arcades.

Nintendo has certainly been a very influential force in establishing what is now the standard game controller, but they were by no means the only innovators in that area.

But this whole lecture is really off topic from the "Fiction" statement, which should actually be labelled "OPINION" beecause that's what it is. The fact that Nntendo greatly influenced what we now view as the "traditional" controller doesn't change the fact that the Wiimote and, to a lesser extent, the Wii U Gamepad have diverged from the well-established current standard of game controllers, and some people dimply prefer the current standard.

Why do people always try to downplay what Nintendo does in this industry?

NOBODY had a pad you could hold in your hands with that kind of directional control before Nintendo put out the Famicom/NES.
NOBODY.
They took their handheld Game & Watch & made it the template for the Famicom/NES controller's design.

Some people had separate buttons for Up, Down, Left, Right on a arcade cabinet.
Some people had smooth moving trackballs on arcade cabinets.
Some people had a sliding disc on a console controller with numerical keys.

NOBODY EVER had a controller that could fit within your hands alone that you could control entirely with your thumbs.
It's not easy to play Atari joysticks in your hands alone. You have to root them on the floor on in your lap or something.
It's not easy to play the Intellivision disc & keypad setup in your hands alone. It's awkward because you can't reach all the buttons.
It has to played on the floor or rooted on some part of your body just as well.

Nintendo changed all of this which is why every controller from that point forward emulated what Nintendo did.
Quit trying to downplay their revolution. I already post the picture truth in an earlier reply to Hedra42.

And nobody ever put together what Nintendo did with the Wiimote in controller & game design.
Nintendo didn't invent the touchscreen either. If that's the bent you're going off of.
Touchscreens are older than the videogame industry itself. Still doesn't discount what Nintendo did to make touchscreens STANDARDS in videogaming.
Nobody even TRIED to pursue what Nintendo pursued when they put out that Wiimote.
A stackable versatile controller that can be a motion wand, a loose-handed version of the "standard" controller, the NES controller all over again, a light gun, a steering wheel, a mouse pointer, a telephone receiver, & more all at the same.

You go on & on about "standard". I TOLD you who made that standard. I TOLD you who made the tradition.
And the truth is Wiimote & Upad are WITHIN this tradition. They're STILL part of the same evolution.
When Wiimote & Nunchuk are combined, you have an AMBIDEXTEROUS loose-handed version of the "traditional" controller standard.
They broke the plank in half & gave you a chance to play with your hands in a more relaxed position.
What would be the L trigger on an old-style controller is now the Z trigger on the Nunchuk.
What would be the R trigger on an old-style controller is now the B trigger on the Wiimote.
Control Stick is on the Nunchuk & for the first time you can play the Control Stick on the RIGHT-hand side.
Left-handed people can finally get away from the right-handed bias controllers usually have.

The second offskew analog control stick known as the C-stick on the Gamecube has been replaced with the analog nature of Wiimote's motion.
The entire Wiimote is a C-Stick! With the action buttons involved you can do more things by holding A & moving the Wiimote around.
It's BETTER than a simple second analog movement. It's more versatile that way. More options for gameplay.

Then taking it all the way back to its roots, all you have to do is turn the Wiimote on its side & it's the NES controller all over again.
Wiimote's 1 button is NES's B button. Wiimote's 2 button is NES's A button.
Nintendo's Cross, the Control Pad, is still in the same place as ever.
Wiimote's (–) button is NES's Select button. Wiimote's (+) button is NES's Start button.
But THIS time there's gyro motion controls to give it that extra spice as we see in games like New Super Mario Bros. Wii.

Upad? It's just like the Game Boy Advance. A big screen in the middle of the controller.
All of Nintendo handhelds have the controller be one & the same as the viewing screen.
The whole NES standard came off of the handheld Game & Watch anyway. NES is pretty much Game & Watch without the screen.

You still have your SNES-styled diamond layout for the action buttons A B X Y. You still have L & R triggers.
You even have Z triggers under those L & R's like the N64's Z trigger.
Analog Control Sticks like N64 & Gamecube even though this time they're even not offskew.
Control Pad's still there as always. Select & Start are there again with their alternate names (–) & (+).
And DS's touchscreen is there with stylus intact.

All of these controllers still on the same evolutionary path from the NES standard but the stagnancy that non-gamemakers Sony & Microsoft brought into the business have brainwashed people into this "traditional" controller nonsense.
The real TRADITION is CHANGE of the controller. It has ALWAYS changed & kept evolving. And will CONTINUE to evolve.

That arcade era you talked about never had whiny gamers complaining about "traditional" controls.
We could get down with a cabinet you make striking motions with like Heavyweight Champ.
We could get down with Centipede's trackball. We didn't complain about Robotron 2084's dual joystick controls.
We didn't get wigged out when Defender only moved Up & Down on the joystick & Left & Right with action buttons.
We enthusiastically tried to learn how to steer that driving wheel in Pole Position.
We didn't boo-hoo when we had to learn that 6-button layout & joystick complexity of Street Fighter II.

Nintendo comes from this era & that's why this is not weird to them to experiment with control inputs.
But visionless followers like Sony & Microsoft have created a significant amount of players who are similarly visionless followers.
Too scared to try anything new. Too scared to take a chance & learn a new way to play.
That's why it's important that The Boss keeps doing what they do. That's why it's important for Nintendo to lead this industry.
Nintendo's pioneering will be followed by the visionless ones & it keeps gamers from stagnating.

Nintendo is not just "a very influential force" in this inudstry.
They are THE Influential Force in this industry ever since the Famicom/NES & continue to be today.
Their countless innovations have transformed & continue to transform the way we play videogames. FACT.

st0pnsw0p said:

Completely false. PSP and PS3 both sold more than the GBA, so if that's considered a viable system, so are they.

GBA had a shortened lifespan, st0pnsw0p. It only had 3 years to itself before DS showed up.
The system was pretty much over in 2007 after just 6 years of life. And it got most of that near 82 million well before 2007.
Besides it was financially successful as well as commercially successful.
The same doesn't apply to PSP or PS3.

PS3 lost BILLIONS for Sony & it STILL struggles to get beyond 85 million nearly 10 years later.
It wouldn't even have gotten that 85 million if it didn't try to emulate Wii! That's what's so ironic about it.
PS3 sales doubled once they rebirthed the console as PS3 Slim with the Wiimote-like Move controller.

PSP ALSO lost BILLIONS for Sony & that 80 million (no, it did NOT outsell GBA) it took most of its 10 years to get was not accompanied by significant game purchases or UMD purchases.
The ones buying PSP's were bootlegging old games from old systems on it.
It was the best handheld challenger Nintendo ever had in the term of hardware sales but that's not saying much when it comes in distant 2nd.
It DEFINITELY was not the best challenger in software sales. It DEFINITELY did not live up to its mission to be the Walkman of the 21st Century.
It DEFINITELY did not live up to its stated goal to "elevate portable entertainment outof the handheld gaming ghetto".
That insult about 'handheld gaming ghetto' referring to Nintendo's handheld dominance.

That's one reason why Vita has no power.
PSP didn't truly resonate & they couldn't carry over anything they achieved on PSP to its successor.
GBA COULD carry its success over to DS. THAT'S the difference.

Not only did GBA outsell PSP entirely & outsell PS3 in aligned time spans but it made money for Nintendo & had positive influence on the industry.
That's why I say Viable. The 'Vi' part means Life, Vitality.
GBA had Vitality, PSP & PS3 were zombies infused with artificial life by Sony's subsidizing.
Without the rest of Sony Corporation covering for those financial failures, Sony Computer Entertainment would have been put out of business with those 2 consoles, PSP & PS3.
If I sell 1 billion $1 trinkets but it took me $2 billion to make those trinkets, that's not success. That's failure.

There's really no comparison between GBA & Sony's 7th gen money pits.

st0pnsw0p said:

I honestly can't find a single statement in this whole segment that could be said to be based entirely on facts and won't waste my breath arguing with this.

Too many facts for ya, huh?
I'm thorough. I try to cover all bases. Hard to find holes in my statements.
You can't argue with it because it's true.
Japan is the Capital of the Videogame Industry.

st0pnsw0p said:

That's like if someone from 2008 said "There's never been a black president" to "prove" that Obama couldn't possibly win the elections.

I understand your confusion on this.
That statement "The Most Powerful Console NEVER Wins" SOUNDS like saying "There will NEVER be a Black President".
I already covered this with Hedra42 but I'll explain it to you.

If power sold systems, then consoles would no longer exist because the PC is the most POWERFUL platform ALWAYS by default.
The fact that consoles still exist shows that raw power does not make sales.

It's a more physics based kind of thing on this topic unlike the "Black President" thing.

Crytek believed in horsepower as I show in my recently released FACTS vs. FICTION – Volume 2.
They believed that graphical displays were 60% of the game.
Then Crysis 3 & Ryse: Son of Rome underperformed & Crytek couldn't make payroll as the CEO tried to find a financier to float the company.

Everytime a company reaches for that power ring bad things happen one way or another.
Sony reached for the power ring once again this generation & though it looks good for them today, they're gonna suffer long term.
Microsoft is gonna undercut them this entire generation much like they did last generation.
Both companies are vying for the same prize but Microsoft has much more financial muscle than Sony does.
They'll negate that so-called power advantage Sony has the longer this generation goes on.
And with Sony fighting off a relentless Microsoft, Nintendo will slither in unnoticed & entrench themselves.

XBox One & PlayStation 4 are so close & so similar that minor power advantages won't make a difference.
They have the same suppliers & Microsoft is in this videogame business solely to unseat Sony who they believe is the key to removing Japanese power in this industry (they're wrong. it's Nintendo but anyway...).
Microsoft wants to return the Capital back to America & believes Sony is the obstacle preventing this.
They will run THROUGH that obstacle. That's why they don't mind losing billions upon billions year after year on this XBox campaign.
Microsoft says that THEY are the King of Computers & that Sony COMPUTER Entertainment will not horn in on this kingdom.
Microsoft will fight for control of those 3rd party game suppliers & all of Sony's PS4 power won't be able to save them once Microsoft starts this War Of Attrition.
In truth the worst thing Sony will have ever done is enter this videogame business all those years ago.
When Sony COMPUTER Entertainment arrived on the scene, they had a ready-made enemy in Microsoft.

Vita is already Dead. Vita Est Mortis. Power didn't save that one. Power ain't gonna save this one either.
Power Does Not Sell Consoles. That's just the facts.

You'll just have to learn the hard way like Sony will.

 

John Lucas