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setsunatenshi on 22 December 2014
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pepharytheworm said:
setsunatenshi said:The discussion has been from the beggining about parental rights AFTER BIRTH. There's no one arguing that there are equal decision rights on the woman's body or her fetus pre birth.

I believe you were the first person to bring it up and then decided to attack that position that I have failed to see anyone else hold.

The conversation is about equal rights after birth and mostly about the chance for a man to abstain from being a father or have the same rights over the child post birth as the woman does. Again before you decide to keep the straw man going.

PRE BIRTH - the woman has 100% rights over the child in my view.

POST BIRTH - both have equal rights over the child. 50-50.


The op brought up abortion as one of the ways in which women can absolve responsibility and men can't.  No one is saying men and women shouldn't have equal rights after birth either. Has anyone stated men shouldn't have custody or visitation? That women shouldn't pay for their child? Or that women can walk away after birth and men can't?

This whole argument is based on the "extra rights" women have that deal with their own bodies. Please tell me how a man can absolve himself in the same way if he can't be pregnant? Tell me a fair way  in which a man can absolve his reponsibility. 


So great that we're all in agreement.. oh wait... we're not exactly.

It's one thing to say men and women SHOULD have equal rights after birth, but what I am arguing and several other people are pointing out is that such is not the case.

As Lawlight pointed out in the most recent post, there is no point in time that a man can self exclude himself from being a parent without it being imposed on him by either the mother or a court of law. The only way that will happen is if the woman will give her consent. The mother, on the other hand, can decide to, 1- terminate the pregnancy; 2- give the child to adoption and thus relinquishing her 'duty' to said child at several points, during and after pregnancy.

Also society itself also gives preferencial treatment to women in deteriment of men in terms of child custody and alimony cases. It is perhaps a sexist view that mothers are the natural caretakers of children. It is a bias and it is indeed a sexist look, but not all sexism is against women as I was attempting to point out. 

I find the fact that the most popular feminists who gloss over every possible injustice that favours women a contradiction to the claim that all they want is equality. I believe that is a much more important issue than the size of breasts of a fictitional character in whatever videogame you chose.