deskpro2k3 said:
No, you don't need throat damage.. The transport of oxygen to the brain is blocked and without oxygen for as little as four minutes brain damage and death can occur. This is the effect of Choking/Suffocation. With choke-hold + dogpiling + asthma combo it will just intensify the suffocation. |
So did the denial of oxygen last as long as four minutes? The video I have seen did not show the denial of oxygen lasting four minutes, not even close.
| DrDoomz said: 1. No, getting choked can cause complications that lead to death besides hypoxia/asphyxation. |
In combination with asthma and high blood pressure. Please don't omit those details.
| DrDoomz said: 2. What caused his heart attack? Coroner seems to think it was due to being choked. How do you keep glossing over that fact? Edit. Technically, a combination of getting choked then smothered if you wanna be specific about it. |
Why do you keep omitting the fact that the coroner didn't just believe it was the choke hold but the choke hold IN ADDITION TO Garner's health problems? You needed all of these things according to the coroner to end Garner's life.
| DrDoomz said: 3. That in itself should have been grounds for an indictment for criminal negligence leading to death. |
Indictment of Pantaleo? Not sure if responsibility of getting Garner medical attention would fall on him.
| DrDoomz said:
4. It wasn't just the chokehold. It was the fact that as soon as he was choked down, they smotherered him by dogpiling on top of him. And it took much more than 20 seconds once you add in the smothering, they were on top of him until he lost consciousness. The combination of the choke and getting smothered and the lack of medical aid as he lay unconscious lead to him slowly deteriorating until he died of cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital. |
In addition to Garner's health problems. Don't forget they played a role too.
| DrDoomz said: 5. Yes, it would be far better to say that the obese (which are about 55-60% of adult american black males btw) are more vulnerable to heart disease (when put under stress). Just as saying old people are more vulnerable to having their bones broken. I guess once we see a cop wrestling an 80 year old to the ground and breaking his neck, we'd blame old guy for being old, too. Can't you see the absurdity of your logic? |
I never placed blame on anyone, neither Garner nor the police: Garner's death was an accident. Police officers may not have been aware of Garner's health problems hence why they did not exercise enough restraint. The force they used might not have killed a healthy man but it was enough to kill Garner who was not in best of health. I'm pretty sure they can tell when someone is very old but they can't tell that Garner has asthma and heart problems by just looking at him.
Listen, what I want more than anything is for the police to not be automatically accused of choking Garner which is something I've seen floating around, Materia-Blade's post being one example. Garner was put in a choke hold but this is not the same as choking. Choke hold CAN mean choking but choke hold =/= choking.
| DrDoomz said: 6. Yes, murder (unlike manslaughter) requires malice. However, malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others. Kinda like using a banned choke hold (due to the risks associated to it) and smothering someone who was already indicating that he was in a life threating situation. But I will agree, the best case to be made here would have been involuntary manslaughter due to criminal negligence (from point of choke hold to just watching him die slowly on the sidewalk). This should have been at the very least one of the charges brought to the grand jury and should have easily made trial. However, were it anyone else but a cop, Murder 2 would have been easily brought up. FYW, accidentally killing someong by punching them in the face is Murder 2. |
I'm no law student but I do believe punching someone in the face and killing them in the process would mean manslaughter but then you'd have to look at the context.
