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General - White Power - View Post

El Duderino said:
makingmusic476 said:
El Duderino said:
makingmusic476 said:
El Duderino said:
makingmusic476 said:
El Duderino said:
Strategyking92 said:
Darc Requiem said:




when most states joined the union they had no idea that they couldn´t ever get out of it anymore...


Actually, they legally should've been able to get it out of it.

I know... thats one major reason why they were so pissed of... and I do feel sympathy for those who wanted to be independent but I have to go with Lincoln on that one "A house divided against itself cannot stand." With the nation growing so fast at that point a war would have become inevitable and it was a good thing he decided to fight before things got even more complicated... though it is sad so many people had to lose their lives fighting for freedom on both sides...

 

He could've just said Goodbye when we tried to leave instead of forcing a war that resulted in over 620,000 deaths.

 


That just wouldn´t have worked... had he sayed goodbye then new states founded in the west could have also become slave states... Lincoln offered the south that they could keep slavery (at least for a while) but no new states where alowed to have it... the south didn´t want that though... it was a fight over principles, eather all men are created equal or not... if that principle is not worht fighting for I don´t know what is...



The war was a matter of economics (particularly tariffs) and states rights (the right to secede from the federal government, and the right to nullify any law a state deemed unconstitutional, much like the issues surrounding the tariff controversies of 1832).

Slavery was well on it's way out by the 18th century. Virginia had been holding abolitionist talks in the State congress as early as 1853, and the US was one of the last major regions that still allowed slavery (England, France, and Spain had banned slavery years before hand). To say that slavery would have survived in the CSA for very long is untrue.


While I do agree that slavery was not the only issue that lead to the civil war I think its impossible to say Slavery was not a main factor... sure there were many other factors but slavery was a very big one... many european countrys had fromaly abandomed slavery but fact is that people could still be held in slave like conditions by their landlords... to say because there were abolitionist talks in the south proves slavery was going to be forbidden is nothing but speculation... there were also anti-abolitionist in ther North btw... Lincoln wanted america slave free once and for all, he achieved that and we should all be gratefull for that... ( I know it took another hundred years for blacks to have equal rights but the Civil War was a major step in the right direction...)

 


In my opinion, the Civil War was NOT a step in the right direction. From a civil liberties/states rights/Jeffersonian standpoint, Lincoln by means of the war did more to advance the power of the federal government, particularly the presidency, than anything aside from FDR's "New Deal".

And while the War did end slavery, I think it only increased racial tension. Imagine the wounded pride Southerners must have felt after the war, especially under the horrible reconstruction imposed by the Radical Republicans. The newly freed black men would've been looked upon as a sign of their defeat, and the Confederates would've taken out their anger on these people. It is why the KKK, aka the Ghosts of the Confederacy, went bad, imo. When you lose at a game, it's not so bad, but when the guy that beat you starts rubbing it in, it starts to piss you off, doesn't it? The freedom of blacks across the South was a physical manifestation of this.

Slavery was slowly dying in the US prior to the war just like it had already died in many other regions. The economic tensions of the 1850s may have spurred the South to push for an expansion of slavery in an effort to increase their political power versus the North, but a freed Confederacy with nothing to fear from from Northern politicians would've had little reason to press the expansion of slavery, and the practice would've eventually ceased much like it had in most other places in the world. And it would've happened peacefully, just like it happened everywhere else.

In the end, everyone would've been better off if Lincoln had just let us go.