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pokoko said:

There are a hell of a lost more Mario based games than Zelda based games from Nintendo.  In terms of complex characters and storytelling, I don't see all that much diversity.  Also, I said nothing about cinematic games, as I'm not really sure what that means, but I did give several examples of games with excellent storytelling and gameplay, which I'll take over game-play alone any day of the week.  A lot of people in this thread seem to be trying to build a false dichotomy, where you can only have a good narrative with interesting characters OR you can have solid game-play.  That is obviously not true and many, many games exist as proof.

You're right, many games prove that you can have both a good narrative and solid gameplay, and many of them are Nintendo games.

I don't see why it matters how many Mario games Nintendo makes. EA releases 6+ sports games every year, they have no narrative at all. Yet even though by your logic I would conclude that the "typical" EA game is devoid of soul and having no depth, you use Mass Effect and Dragon Age as examples of great storytelling with great gameplay. You mention Valkyria Chronicles even though it is made by Sega, who shits out another lousy Sonic game every year and little else.

Don't use Mario as an excuse to dismiss Metroid, Zelda, Mother, Pikmin, Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, and other games I haven't even played and you probably haven't either.