zarx said:
megafenix said:
yea, i read the tweets again and most likely are triple framebuffers. As for deffered rendering being used in ps3 and 360, well, from what i have read there were not vastly used and developers would have to do some workarounds to get it to work, in ps3 they used the spus(seems they had to use 5 in killzone)
http://www2.disney.co.uk/cms_res/blackrockstudio/pdf/BlackRockStudioTechnology_Deferred_Shading.pdf
Here some developers had to dismiss the deffered rendering as the gbuffer required 12MB of edram and xbox 360 only had 10MB of it, no to mention that those 10MB were needed for the framebuffer of 720p
here is another article were they seemed to have acheved the deffered rendering in ps3 nd 360 but by using some implementation tricks to reduce the memory bandwidth requirements but that could mean more shader power that would normallybe required if you did it in the normal way
http://webstaff.itn.liu.se/~perla/Siggraph2011/content/talks/18-ferrier.pdf
I am not saying that its impossible to use this technique on the last consoles, but clearly the implementation isnt stright forward and could mean that they would use more shader power as they are using to many spus(ps3 is using 5 spus for this techqiue) and the xbox 360 is using parallelism in the gpu and hep from the cpu. In a normal implementation of this tecnique you would not require this much shader power, the implementation in this way may still be better than forward rendering and would still save up shader power, but doesnt look like it would have the performance that it would give in a console with enough memory bandwidth to use it without these workarounds
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If Shin'en weren't using similar tricks I would be very suprised. They would be stupid to do a straight implementation when there are so many ways of improving it depending on what the specific requirements of the game are and the hardware it's running on. If they didn't it would be leaving easy optimisation on the table, and I very much doubt a studio like that would do that. As for it being hard yes there are issues with using it, but there are for forward rendering as well. And if DICE USA could do it on the OG Xbox with a licensed Shrek game it's clearly not that big a problem.
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in ps3 and 360 they had to do it that way since bandwidth wasnt enough, and those implementations came at a cost sicne they had to sue 5 spus on ps3 to achieve this technique and gpu parallelism+cpu on 360. That means they had to sarifice more shader power to acheive the implementation, the adventage of deffered rendering should be to use few shader power but here seems to be the contrary, surely they may be still using less shader power than what forward rendering could have required, but still put to much pressure on the hardware due to the lack of memory bandwidth. Using these workarounds on wii u would come with no benefit sicne the console would be put on to much pressure, is better to sacrifice bandwidth than shader power in wii us case since wii u has plenty of bandwidth and so you would save up more shader power on this technique than what ps3 and 360 were able to using those tricks
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