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When you have a fact Jay, you don't really need research.

BMaker11 said:

That fact that those games' sales mostly coincide right with console sales during the time period they were bundled with every console is all I need to know. Such an agenda right? 3.5M 360s sold Late November - Dec 2011 with Forza 4 packed into every console. "Only" 4.25M copies of Forza 4 sold LTD. 515k launch in late October. It stands to reason that if 3.5M 360s have Forza 4 packed in, Forza 4 would "sell" at least 3.5M, right? Much agenda. Such unsubstantiated.

Jay already pointed out how laughably incorrect this is, but allow me to explain other reasons why it's wrong so that you maybe avoid this in the future.

1. Your theory assumes that every console sold is the bundle. This is far from the truth. So PS4 sold around 550k in the September NPD. Does this mean at least 550k copies of Destiny are bundled? No. You still have the other SKU. If I go into a Target or Walmart right now and look at 360's, I may see... a 4GB without Kinect. A 4GB with Kinect. A 250GB console with no games. A bundle with Tomb Raider and Halo 4. Or a Minecraft bundle. Or others. Same logic applies here.

2. It still doesn't address the fact that the logic behind this "bubuu bundles!" excuse is just silly. You can't discredit a games legs or sales because of bundles. The point of a bundle is to give consumers value. A game included in a bundle should be applauded for pushing hardware, not penalized for being in the bundle.

All Jay said is the Forza franchise has legs. Your response is its legs shouldn't count because MS had the audacity to bundle it. How does that make any sense? Clearly people want the games or they wouldn't buy the bundle.