| Norris2k said: Yes, my first point is that this is for a large part nostalgia and feeling, so it's just in the head of who is listening. |
Perfect.
| Norris2k said: My second point about "authenticity" is more prone to disagreement. Even if not on purpose, it's some kind of elitism. I agree any single group is a product. There are producers, money, organization, etc to produce disks. But, let's take one example, a group I love, Motorhead (which is indeed a product). You know Lemmy from Motorhead, he was a road crew for the beatles in the 60's, most of his life is about music, he lived in squats and talked with Sid Vicious, he's like an encyclopedia that can talk about music, blues, rock for hours, he has a collection of rare vynils and CD, most of his friends are related to music, he started in a "indy experimental" group, was fired and started Motorhead, for which he plays a quite unique bass style, he's the main compositor for songs, and have some stubborn ideas about what he want to sounds like. He was never been really successful but still he plays the music he seems to like for 30 years. Can you tell this is exactly the same thing than a producer that puts together 3 hot chicks that want to be stars, that makes they sing one song that some other guy produced, in a style chosen based on market analysis, and that uses a lot of money to get on the TV ? Would the producer get a result as good as Motorhead if they happened to play the same genre ? Can you say you can't feel the difference just by listening to it ? Can you say you don't feel when a group is playing outside the genre they like to get more money ? So you can say that's elitism, especially if someone is loud and stubborn about it, but I think saying "authentic" is not absurd, it something you can feel, it's something for which you can set a personal minimum standard. |
I agree that this Lenny has something more than a regular pop star and more power to him. But is it important? Does it make his music better? Have can be proud of himself for making it where he is now, but I'm not in it for the story, I'm in in for the music. Of couse you can choose to value it, but you can't say the music - or even your opinions about music - is better than someone else's because they don't.
Besides, maybe some popular rap artists went through similar stuff... or even worse?
| Norris2k said: I know that nowadays a lot of people think any idea of hierarchy, authenticity, objectivity, quality is elitism, and that elitism is bad. I know by experience you can't argue with someone that feels that way. But for me it's like saying that the worst and cheapest vinegar is exactly the same thing as an expensive wine made by experts from the finest grape : everything is a product, and that's question of taste, nothing is better. I'm fine if someone prefer the vinegar I would only use to clean my toilets, like what you like. But let's be clear, I believe the expensive wine is better. |
Some people maybe think hierarchy etc, is elitism, I don't. I only consider a subjective opinion treated as better than another equally subjective opinion. And in art, there is no objectivity.
The best and most expensive wine is considered the best and most valuable because people like it. Or at least people agree that it has value. There is a clear hierarchy of wine from worst to best, so one can objectively say one kind of wine is better than another - even though this quality is based on arbitrary traits. Just like I can generally say a $100 banknote is more vaulable than a $5 dollar banknote, even though it's just pieces of paper. We agree that is has value and so it does. We don't have this kind of agreement in music.
