| Mystro-Sama said: Most Atheists i've spoken to dropped the smartass attitude after that question. Not to mention that they can't seem to answer the question of how an existence without consciousness can create an existence with consciousness. |
Not, because this question and answer are totally biased.
The first step is to use logic (simple logic), to have doubt and ask questions. "Who create the energy ? Who created the black hole, the big bang ? Why ? Why ? Space, time and whatever... I'm so much in doubt !"
The 2nd step is to forgot any logic and doubt the first step was based on, to find an answer that is beyond logic : then God exists. No "Who created God ?" "Anything needs an origin ! What is before God" "Where does the energy of God come from ?" "Would God created God, an alternative God ? But what would it become ?".
Anyway... our existence seems to imply for both believers and atheists that the starting point (be it God, the Universe, the big bang intial conditions or whatever) has always been there, created itself, or does not even exists. But that is in fact extremely simplistic, because as far as we know by science... Well, your question about "before" is a question about a time where... woooo... there is not even time. A question about what logic could apply when or if there is nothing and no time is way beyond our understanding, and could even be beyond understanding.
I think it's even a mistake for a believer to try to prove the existence of God by logic, because most religions (I heard of) claim the path to God is faith (or love, whatever). For example, the Church, its representative or the Bible doesn't claim to prove anything. A proof, especially a simple proof in a few sentence, would deny any freedom and faith.
And it's also a mistake for an atheist to try to prove God does not exists by logic, because it's a misuderstanding about where logic apply and what logic is.
I have quite a fun question for you. It's just to show the limit of logic on such a subject.
First, some background, and that's a real debate, I didn't came up with it : If God is omnipotent and omniscient, He should know everything, including the future, right ? Which implies He knows who will have faith or not. If the outcome of faith for someone is known, it is a determinism, which denies the concept of faith. And that is also impossible. So, one of the common and convenient solution for this problem is that God... does not know the future. Another solution would be that God self limits His omniscience and omnipotence. We could also think that God is not omniscient and omnipotent.
So, anyway, my question is : If He doesn't know (continuously) the future, isn't it implying that we or the Universe could possibly be there by accident ?
