| Played_Out said: @rocketpig Philosophy is clumsy, awkward, tactless, indiscreet, oppressive and harsh. Criticising MGS2 for being pretensious or excessively verbose is legitimate enough, but to hurl accusations of pseudo-intellectualism is perhaps a little unfair, and the comparison to Kubrick is tenuous at best. Kubrick's work is typically about the nature of man and never touches on the aspects of postmodern theory that Kojima broaches. They are closer to the kind of ideas outlined in some of Cronenberg's best work. Actually, that comparison is pretty weak too, but it is certainly a lot more apt than Kubrick. You may (justifiably) find the humorous elements such as Snake hiding from enemies in cardboard boxes and looking at titty magazines to cure nausea out of place, but like it or not, that incongruity is a fairly typical symptom of postmodern aesthetics, perfectly in tune with themes adressed throughout the game. In that sense they can be seen as completely consistent. The fact that you make reference to the likes of Descartes suggests to me that you are not really engaging with the areas of philosophical thought that Kojima brings to the fore. Cogito ergo sum won't cover it. It isn't Blade Runner. (NB/ Bioshock says nothing of objectivism, but Rand's particular brand of philosophical theory lacks intellectual rigour anyway.) @Borkachev That dialogue makes perfect sense. It is a discussion of moral relativism. Context. Personally, I thought that was made pretty clear. Don't assume that just because you don't understand it that the author didn't either. @The_vagabond7 Don't bring The Matrix into this. Anyone with a basic knowledge of the ideas discussed in those movies knows that the Wachowski brothers hadn't got a fucking clue what they were talking about. Baudrillard himself confirmed this. Kojima clearly has a much firmer grip on his subject, whether you find the ponderous dialogue appealing or not. @Onimusha12 You don't think elements of realism should be tackled in fantasy games? Perhaps you would prefer them to be entirely abstract? Kojima is not "retranslating Neiztche (sic) for the upper 1% eschellon (sic) of intellectuals". It is more like McLuhan for the upper 10%. Maybe, just maybe, there are things that you don't quite grasp... such as the term "ham-fisted". @shio Deus Ex was a lot simpler than MGS2 (as is clear from the snippet of dialogue you posted) and Oblivion is still widely regarded as the best RPG for the past couple of years, despite it's flaws. @SlorgNet I obviously didn't get the memo about the Matrix sequels being cold war action movies! |
Wow, someone give this guy a medal! He actually knows what he is talking about and doesn't just throw around philosophical buzzwords and names of famous cinematic artists like Kubrick! I am not well-versed in post-modernism because I gravitate towards modern and pre-20th century philosophers, but Played_Out has handled this topic more maturely than everyone else in this thread, including myself.
MGS2 is pretentious I agree, but most great art is a little pretentious. If gaming is ever categorized by Western academia and subdivided into authors, etc., Kojima will be one of the biggest names in gaming, along with Miyamoto and the other greats.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
