| DuncanMcNeil said: DUNCAN, Are you sure that you are looking at the data correctly? How do you know that the Atheist did not commit a crime, get thrown into prison, and then in his hardship seek God? I am sure that atheists are not immoral. You're twisting the statistics because you think christians are better people than atheists. You think christians are good people for one of two reasons: 1. Racism, slavery, rape, and war are good things to you. 2. Or you have not read the bible. No knock on Prisoners though, as the Bible says that we should care for the imprisoned be they guilty or innocent. God is good and loving and all men will answer for what they have done (even me), so even though it seems like people get away with murder- they do not. (No I am not a prisoner or a murderer). I don't really care for murderers and rapists. You can't graft you beliefs into Christianity and then say that it is wrong because it does not add up to your ideas of true Atheism. What I mean is don't set-up a model of Christianity that is flawed-keep the facts correct and don't change models mid-point. Agreed, and you should not either, if a smart person reads the bible - they will know God is evil or imaginary. Christianity IS flawed. Example, Look at Christ he was killed and he was innocent and GOD... so is it so strange that bad things happen to good people if they happened to the best. In Atheism justice must come in this world and Christianity it may come now or in the next. It is better that justice comes now so that the offender has time to repent and accept Christ. Christ was innocent? I think you're missing the part where he advocated slavery and was racist. Not to mention, no socieities take kindly on people who claim to be under the direct lineage of god. The Bible never said good things happen to good people, Christ told the Disciples that they would be killed because of him and you know what they were. Does this mean that God does not exist, no. If Christ had said you will not die, yes. But he told them that they would die and suffer. No, the bible says to stone people to death for working on sunday. Then it goes on to give advice on how to treat slaves. Atheist seek joy and meaning in life, we seek it in God- who is in this life and the after life. I don't seek meaning in life. My life is for treating people well. Being a teacher. Giving to the poor. And understanding people and nature. You should let go of your supernatural beliefs and instead be a good person. If Christ or God were good people and real, they would not let people die, and they too would be teachers. Any person who is smart could tell me why children starve to death. If getting into heaven was really about being a good person, nobody who follows the bible would get in and thus, anyone who is a good person according to the bible is in the real world - an intolerant, murderous and evil tyrant. You should be making the best of this life - instead of advocating the lessons in the bloody fairytales of the bible. I haven't even touched on the fact that it is illogical to believe in things that don't exist. Wasting money on buildings and jewelry instead of giving to the poor is a bad thing. I think I've done a great job of showing that it is wrong to believe in the things the bible advocates, or to ignore them and focus on very small parts of the bible. As a whole - people who can't see that religion is tearing apart our world would have to be too dense to see that this world is the real one - not the imaginary one that exists in the mind. If you learn anything at all - learn that if the meaning of your life is searching for god - then your life is meaningless, because god isn't real. |
Mr. McNeil,
1st I would like to apologize for the way I made my point… DUNCAN, Are you sure that you are looking at the data correctly? How do you know that the Atheist did not commit a crime, get thrown into prison, and then in his hardship seek God?
I did not mean it to sound as though I was attacking Atheists. Really what I was saying is that the data that you used though it may be true, only tells you that there are Christians in prison but it does not tell you if they were Christians before they went in. In prisons there are all types of pressures on you as many like to quote: “Religion is the Opiate of the masses.”
Have you seen “O’ Brother Where Art Thou” George Clooney played the part of this guy that would call on God and make all of these promises to Him but as soon as he was safe he would go back to his old ways by explaining away the miraculous way he was saved. Many people live like this.
Prison is a violent place and in order to survive it you need affiliations. Some chose gangs, White Supremacist, Black Supremacist, colors--- some people divide by religion. From what I have seen on documentaries there are perks in being affiliated to Christian groups (as I alluded to in my former post, Christians ministering to those on the inside could result in free food or resources…)
Do you get what I am saying?
There is only so much that data can tell you and it can swing both ways. A lot of convicts convert to Islam but will you argue that Islam is the reason they are incarcerated? The same goes for any religion even and of course yours.
Mr. McNeil I do not think that Christians are “good” people. “Good” what does that mean to you? What makes one man good and another not? You may be the best man on this planet and only guilty of 2 sins and that would certainly make you less of a sinner than me (heck even 100 sins), but you would still be a sinner.
Let me tell you the reason why prisoners can be saved is because it is not about keeping the 10 Commandments anymore but it is about having faith in Christ. The Bible says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23” and in 24 to 25 it goes on to say that humankind can only be justified by Christ.
So this means, that the people that you don’t like; my “hateful and evil” God, loves. So much that he sent his Son for them. He also sent his Son for the people that have sinned less. Now tell me if my brother killed a man and I continued to support and love him does that make me a murderer too? Should we be judged by the people we love and hang-out with?
1. Racism, slavery, rape, and war are good things to you.
2. Or you have not read the bible.
Where does the Bible say that Rape is good? Or war or slavery? God acknowledges its existence but where does he say these are good thigs?
Now when it comes to war… let me ask- do you think it was right for America to Invade Germany to stop Jews from being slaughtered?
AND if someone broke into your house and tried to kill the people that you love would you fight back? Would you kill them if you had to? If you would kill them explain to me what justifies you in taking a human life? What makes your love ones more important than the man that you just killed?
I said: You can't graft you beliefs into Christianity and then say that it is wrong because it does not add up to your ideas of true Atheism. What I mean is don't set-up a model of Christianity that is flawed- keep the facts correct and don't change models mid-point.
You said: Agreed, and you should not either, if a smart person reads the Bible - they will know God is evil or imaginary. Christianity IS flawed.
Mr. McNeil , what I am saying is that you keep confusing your ideas as an Atheist with the views of the Bible and thus it compromises you objectivity. It would be like someone saying all women are bad but all he ever dates is women that are prone to trouble. So what I mean is that you say things like, "the Bible says that if you have faith in God you will see no harm" but I tried to show you that the Bible does not say that. So how can you knock over Christianity with a straw man?
Whether or not Christ is innocent to you or not is not the point the Bible says that he is. And I know what that sounds like so please follow me close…
I was showing you that the Bible (whether true or not) does not say Believers will be unharmed in life and by the Bible (true or not) I showed you that even Christ who the Bible claims (true or not) was Innocent was killed. But you then started to tell me all of the reasons why Jesus was guilty BUT was that the point I was making? No. I pointed out the fact that you made a mistake about what the Bible says, whether or not the Christ of the history you believe, was innocent; is irrelevant. It would be the same thing if I said that in that poem “the Night before Christmas” Santa’s Belly shook like a bowl full of jelly and then you start to tell me about Saint Nicholas (of history) was not fat at all. Do you see what I am saying? You started off attacking the Bible and using what you thought it said against it and then by your error you claim that Christianity is false? That is not logical. If the Bible did not say it you can’t attack it with what you made up.
You said:Christ was innocent? I think you're missing the part where he advocated slavery and was racist. Not to mention, no socieities take kindly on people who claim to be under the direct lineage of god.
Mr. McNeil, by the Bible (true or not), Christ was a slave, where does he say he is pro-slavery though? And what was slavery in those days? Are you saying that Christ is for the mistreatment of fellow human beings? Didn’t he say Love thy Neighbors as thyself? Don’t we have bosses and jobs that we hate in this society too? Wouldn’t our jobs be better if we all listened to Christ?
Where was he a racist? I see no evidence of that. The Christian Movement started with the Jew and spread to Gentiles… the Old Testament said it would do that as well did the New Testament. Jesus helped many Gentiles and said that some of them had more faith than the Jews. Now if you are saying that Christ hates the Jews well you need to look back at the old Testament and see what the respected Jewish prophets say about themselves. As and African American, I know that sometimes my own people can be harsh on themselves and that is the way it should be. Those that are closer to the problem can see it better. Wasn't Christ a Jew?
You said: No, the bible says to stone people to death for working on Sunday. Then it goes on to give advice on how to treat slaves.
Do you know that one of the reasons Jesus was killed was because he was healing on the Sabbath (the Sabbath to Jews is on Saturday to us it is any day but we widely do so on Sunday). Jesus told some of his accusers (Pharisees and teachers of the Law) a parable that went like this: “How many of you if you had a donkey that fell in a hole on the Sabbath would do nothing about it?” It is interesting that you should think like Christ.
Did you know that every 7 years slaves were to be freed, the year of Jubilation? Did you know that God sent trouble on Israel a couple of time for keeping and abusing slaves? Men sold themselves into slavery in those days to pay- off there debt or earn money- the year of Jubilation also freed them of there debts. Some of the slaves were from enemy combatants but even they were to be freed after a while.
God is not a respecter of persons; he does not love some and hate others- even though some people have harder lives than others. Do you want him to kill everybody? You must understand that he had to work through the understanding of men of the time. He had to slowly teach man about himself by setting out examples through history…. I’ll talk about this after you blast me. LOL.
You said: Atheist seek joy and meaning in life, we seek it in God- who is in this life and the after life.
I don't seek meaning in life. My life is for treating people well. Being a teacher. Giving to the poor. And understanding people and nature.
I am sorry for misspeaking. I do want to say, however, that the things that you say you do seem meaningful to me and that I am sure that they mean something to the people you help.
You Said: You should let go of your supernatural beliefs and instead be a good person. If Christ or God were good people and real, they would not let people die, and they too would be teachers. Any person who is smart could tell me why children starve to death….
All I can say to that you are saying that God shouldn’t let people die but to God {real or not) death has always been one thing that we now split into two things. When God told Adam and Eve that they would “Surely Die” if they ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he meant that they would die and also go to Hell. Dying- is Death and going to Hell is Death, things that we separate are really one thing. But Adam and Eve did not have to go to Hell because in Genesis God said that he would save men from Hell, if they wanted to avoid it. That is why Christ came. So if God is real, there is not true death and if you are in Hell are you really dead (I speak about being dead as you may see it, non-existence)? If he was real you would live eternally, life is just about you making a decision. Will you face the Second death (Hell) or not? Those children will have an eternity with God and those who callously let them starve will be judged by God. And no I am not saying this is an easy thing to say but I am saying as I said before evil in the world does not disprove God because God never said there wasn’t evil in the world. If he had said otherwise, then what you said would be true.
Now if a man suffers for 80 yrs. and for his pain wins eternity in joy (if it were true), and another has joy (by doing evil) for 80 years but then goes to Hell for eternity -who wins?
You: If getting into heaven was really about being a good person, nobody who follows the bible would get in and thus, anyone who is a good person according to the bible is in the real world - an intolerant, murderous and evil tyrant.
The Bible says, “No Man is good” so how can getting into heaven be about doing good deeds?
You: person according to the bible is in the real world - an intolerant, murderous and evil tyrant.
I still don’t see where you get this from. Be careful with calling someone else intolerant, because you have basically said over the coarse or 2 posts, that the problem with the world = Christians. And that sounds a bit intolerant to me. More over didn’t I tell you that God loves the prisoners… even murderers and rapist? On what basis do you hate them? In your view if a man dies that is all he has. So shouldn’t you be a little more tolerant with a man that made a mistake in the one life he has to live? Or would you rather he suffers for all the days you believes that he has in existence? The way I see it, God (real or not) is WAY more forgiving than you are.
Ja Mata
I will talk to you later, I hope that nothing I wrote comes off as rude to you- that is not how I meant it. If so then I apologize in advance and I ask you forgiveness and understanding.
