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thranx on 29 May 2014
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the2real4mafol said:
thranx said:
the2real4mafol said:
This issue still makes no sense to me. The gun issue is clearly an american except. Why do people find it necessary to own guns for "protection"? It's the 21st century not the fucking 19th!! There are no bandits of criminals going round killing and robbing people anymore and unless you live in some wood somewhere you weren't get attacked by a wild animal.

And yeah I have changed my mind, guns shouldn't be banned altogether. Banning them, much like drugs or alcohol or prostitution just means more lucrative trade for cartels. But what i struggle to get at is the lack of common sense on this issue in America. The land where anyone regardless of their past can get a gun easily, I just find that crazy. People should be trained how to use these things because it seems alot of the incidents that occur happen because the owner of the gun was reckless in some way. Also, a gun ain't like any other commodity or product and so due to the risks of owning one, they shouldn't be so freely accessible. The lack of stuff like mental health checks when buying these sort of things also makes no sense.

Also, gun advocate reasons are just as stupid. You lot really think you can take on the state? How naive of you to think like that? You may have your guns but they can bomb you, nuke you etc before you even have a chance to fight. Also, you gun advocates can't carry on deluding yourselves while innocent people are being killed. Countries like Switzerland rarely if ever have this sort of incidents, because they are properly trained and know how to be responsible gun owners. I don't want to write off american gun owners but these incidents (homicide, misogyny etc.) seem to be quite common and something must change. Calling people you disagree with "moron liberals" won't change anything.

Something must change, and the US constitution would be a start. It needs to reflect the 21st century and modern society in general. Right now I think it's holding you lot back.


Bundy did. He kept his land, for now. Americans who talk about the government arent as fearful of the army, navy, marines, and air force, as they are of the EPA, BLM, and DHS. All armed federal branches with no link to the  military forces. When it come to them, the state may even back you up against them, as they are federal agencies, not state level. Having guns can and will protect you from them over reaching (we will see if they try in texas next). I doubt the Army, Navy, Marines, or Air force would shoot on american citizens, but armed federal agnecies I dont think would have a problem. They are the threat that americans fear, not the army. When you have even the IRS arming itself, and being used as a politacal hammar it may be wise to protect yourself, or atleast hold them off for the rest of america to see and decide what to do, like what happened in Bundy's case. Had he not had weapons, poeple, and the interent there to help him, he would be in jail right now, or dead.

But how do we decide when someone is protecting their property and when someone is just outright breaking the law. This guy killed others who were innocent and from the sounds of it the guy over-reacted, guns allowed him to easily take the lives of these people prematurely. To me life is precious, i don't see why one freedom (right to bear arms) should allow the other to be so easily infringed upon  (right to life). 

Also, where is this tyranny you speak and why do people only assume the government to be like this? What of private companies like this want to forcibly take people's land to build keystone XL on or to frack on? Ain't fair is it but in no circumstances would it be acceptible to 'protect' or really kill such trespassers. As a European, I just find it very hard to understand this issue as i said before. 

Is there even any cases where armed citizens have managed to protect others from criminals? 

And also if people are afraid of federal agencies like the EPA, then there is seriously something with American democracy. The irony in that is laughable for a country that proudly calls itself a democracy, i guess it ain't so. 

guns allowed him to take lives of half the people, cars and knives covered the rest. I think people have forgotten about the mail bombing, and other attrocities that mentally unstable people perform. Take away guns and other items can and will be used, and at this point in time its pretty easy to build guns from home. These mass shootings are all planned and exectuted with thought and time, that same thought and time can and will go into makeing their own guns and bombs from itewms bought at home depot. so its a moot point to disarm an entire nation, so a few people who can wreck havock with out guns dont have them. These are not spur of the moment kind of things, but build up over months and years.

Ptivate companies can only take land with the help of the government. If keystone wants to take land for their pipleine it would be done through eminant domain (a government law /program) which is used to take private land for the greater good (rather socialist to be honest). With out that, they would actually have to deal with the owners of the land, instead of a government land grab like it would be right now. Dems/Repubs, they both use these laws.

 

Yes there are many, it happens almost daily. Just do a search on google.

What the frackers are doing wouldn't be possible if  it wasn't for emminent domain that allows them to bypass the normal process of buying land. Another travesty against the constitiution, dreamed up to to help make things "equal" and "fair" "for the greater good". All things that would not fly with the original intent. The reason the big government programs are bad is because both sides use them for abuse, private companies can use them to take land for the greater good, and hippie enviromentalist can use them to take land for the greater good. They are just tools that will be abused, so best not to have and to hvae a small limited government.

Demoacracy does not mean everyone agrees or everyone is happy. What has happened in the US is that our constitution was thrown out the window. We had steps in place that would help protect angainst mob rule, and would help protect those that had more niche views on life and government. Over time these have been erroded in the name or "fairness" and "equality" . But all government should be feared, as all government holds power over people, the bigger the government the more power they hold that can be used against you. But as bad as it is here, I know there are far worse governments out there, and besides select places in Europe I dont think I would live any where else.

 

Ptivate companies can only take land with the help of the government. If keystone wants to take land for their pipleine it would be done through eminant domain (a government law /program) which is used to take private land for the greater good (rather socialist to be honest). With out that, they would actually have to deal with the owners of the land, instead of a government land grab like it would be right now. Dems/Repubs, they both use these laws. What the frackers are doing wouldn't be possible if  it wasn't for emminent domain that allows them to bypass the normal process of buying land. Another travesty against the constitiution, dreamed up to to help make things "equal" and "fair" "for the greater good". All things that would not fly with the original intent. The reason the big government programs are bad is because both sides use them for abuse, private companies can use them to take land for the greater good, and hippie enviromentalist can use them to take land for the greater good. They are just tools that will be abused, so best not to have and to hvae a small limited government.

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/28/inside-the-ring-directive-outlines-obamas-policy-t/?page=all#pagebreak

I'll just leave this here too, it relates to the bundy case, and why americans may fear the government. And also illustrates why the feds are building up fed agencies SWAt teams in a way that may be bypassing a need to even use our armed forces against americans.

 

But please read up on emminate domain, and this article I posted. Your fun to discuss things with.