| SlayerRondo said: Are you seriously claiming that liberals do not often during gun control discussions, misrepresent the facts and make emotional arguments as opposed to reasoned ones? Also gun deaths were already on the decline before the gun control laws were introduced in Australia in 1997. Gun Deaths in Australia 1987 = 569 Gun Deaths in Australia 1997 = 333 Ten Year Deline = 236 Gun Deaths in Australia 2007 = 190 Ten Year Decline = 143 Australian Bereau of Statistics (ABS). Causes of Death publication series Australia is just a more peacefull country than America is. |
First of all, not claiming anything about liberals. I'm saying something about the attempt to deflect the discussion away from the issue of gun violence onto the issue of liberal rhetoric, and addressing it by redirecting it back to the issue of gun violence, where the discussion, in this situation, belongs.
And I like the way that you use a datapoint from AFTER gun control legislation and the buyback had already started, to somehow prove that gun deaths were already on the decline. Here are the numbers from a more detailed source:
2003: 287
2002: 292
2001: 326
2000: 324
1999: 347
1998: 312
1997: 428
1996: 516
1995: 470
1994: 516
1993: 513
1992: 608
1991: 618
1990: 595
1989: 549
1988: 674
1987: 694
Source: Kreisfeld, Renate. 2006. ‘Australia Revised Firearm Deaths 1979-2003.’ National Injury Surveillance Unit / NISU. Adelaide: Research Centre for Injury Studies, Flinders University of South Australia.
Change from 1987 to 1996: -25% over a period of 9 years
Change from 1996 to 2003: -44% over a period of 7 years - Newest data in 2011, 8 years later again, has a further 34% decrease.
And I particularly like the part where you assume that we had no gun control at all prior to the massacre. Between 88 and 95, various state and federal gun control laws were already being passed. What was special about 1996 was the gun buyback and the standardisation of laws across all states.
And I don't think Australia is particularly more peaceful, either. Assault rates per capita in 2012 was at 3.27 per 1000 in Australia and 2.62 per 1000 in US. Murder rate is higher in the US, though.
What is different between America and Australia is that we don't have a massive gun culture that has people convinced that any attempt to control access to guns is some sort of attack on freedom, even if it's just sensible controls like "make sure the person isn't criminally insane".
And while US population is about 15x that of Australia, the rate of gun crimes is, as of 2011, is 171x that of Australia. Australia's gun homicide rate is just 13% of the total homicide rate. America's is 70%. Total homicide rates in the US are 84x that of Australia. Non-gun homicide rates in the US are less than 30x higher than in Australia. So while the non-gun homicide rate per capita is higher in the US by a factor of 2, the gun homicide rate per capita is higher by a factor of 5.5. Australians may be a little more peaceful, but not exceptionally so... but the total death counts are lower, and thus the assault rates are higher (because homicides aren't usually recorded as assaults, and it's harder to kill someone with a knife than with a gun).
