If you have questions about Russia - come here! (Poll added!)

[mai]

sethnintendo said:

For starters, nation is relatively new form of ethnosocial myth that exists 2-3 centuries at most, so in that particular context that would be an anachronism. If you mean participated in ethnogenesis then no, various Slavic and Finno-Urgic tribes you mentioned have indeed participated in ethnogenesis on early stages of what would become Russians and gazillion of other cultures eventually, but not Vikings as "viking" is denotation of a profession, not an ethnicity. "Establishing Russia as a powerhouse" is no again as it is yet another anachronsim, no Russia back then. Clearing the river routes of "barbarians" (I'd prefer term nomads or Turkic nomads) is partially yes as the mission of taking full control of river routes that ran through North to South never was accomplished until very late into XV centuries, but of course first conflict with nomadic tribes have started on early stages of Rus' statehood, and first victories as well such as demise of Khazar Khaganate in X century.

So to word in most best form possible what you're trying to say (you're obviously referrring to Norman theory) -- Rus' represented the major armed force on the North-to-South river routes in the region and therefore  often acted as army for hire for local tribes and cities, eventually some of them institunalized themselves in a form of early statehood (or rather statehoods, as there were many of them) -- basically the biggest gang on the block, if you got the idea, not smth unseen in the world history.

//And just a thought to share -- a good-forumlated question is half of your answer.

Thanks for the response.  I will not act like I know a lot about Russia's past (especially compared to you).  I just remembered that the Rus were kind of shunned or their past wasn't really acknowledged much among modern day Russians.  I thought I read somewhere that the Rus contributions were semi forgotten/not really important to most Russians these days. 

Forgive my lumping all Scandinavia (and Denmark) people into Vikings.  I had a few too many drinks last night and when I get drunk I usually generalize all Scandinavians as Vikings in that era even though to be a Viking one must go i viking.  Sure the Rus didn't do much besides clear trade routes and perhaps install a little more order but I believe it paved the way for the great nation of Russia.  They deserve some credit but obviously not all credit.

They way you state your questions is rather layman'ish, bear signs of many anachronism, i.e. brining contermporary phenomenons into context of given historical period. Acknowledging vikings, or I'd prefer "varyags" (if you've read Tolkien's LOTR, you should have stumbled upon this word already), is like my left kidney say thanks to my right kidney for my well-being.

 

 

The "acknowledgment" of Rus' exists in many ways, aside from Norman theories there's plenty of alternatives like Indo-Iranian or Slavic theories, all of them in one way or another basically speculate on the ethimlogy of the word "Rus'". The quote you referred to is looks like translation of Primary Chronicle, dated back to XII century (exists only in quotes from far more later documents from XV-XVII centuries). As any translation it is interpretation and it's better to read it in original language. Your translation suggests that the Rus' is antoher tribe, that is smth not particulary clear from original document.

Say, here's the quote from Novgorod Chronicle, which presumambly quotes even earlier document, Initial Code, that supports the idea of "Rus'" being a profession:

Source

Varyags, as well as vikings, obviously bear some signs of Nordic heritage, hence their names. But not for too long as Svyatoslav, the very same who defeated khazars, was Rurik's grandson as legend suggests and the first from Rurikids to have a Slavic name. Meaning of which, assimilation took 2 generations to complete. Speaking about Rurikids, as per recent research, their male ancestry consists of two primary Y-DNA haplogroups N1c and R1a. This was a genetic research and doesn't give us full idea of Rurik's heritage (and on top of things it's based on assumption that their wives didn't cheat on them, which is, mind you, bold assumption), but a good hint it is. Here's the map of Y-DNA haplogroups distribution accross the Europe: