What do you think you have to do to get to Heaven?

[superchunk]

tarheel91 said:

superchunk said:

tarheel91 said:

superchunk said:

tarheel91 said:
I believe one must be part of the 144,000. Everyone else has a hope to live on a paradise earth for eternity.

That is the one thing that has always made me .... very ... distanced from Jehovah's Witnesses. The idea that God will only give Paradise to an extremely small group of people. Sorry, but that is so much of the opposite of the idea of God and Heaven.

Plus, if you actually read that part of the bible it says 144,000 and many more. Whenever JW's come to my house this is what I show them in the Bible.

Your concept of our beliefs is a tad off. Paradise is on earth for us. Anyone and everyone has the potential to gain everlasting life in that paradise. I'm interested to see where you get the idea of many more going to heaven as well. As I understand it from my reading of the bible, there are two groups: the annointed, and the great crowd. Let's ignore all the scriptures that talk about the meek inheriting the earth or God's will being done on earth and look solely at that division. What's the point of dividing people into two groups if they're going to the same place? We believe the 144,000 serve as joint kings and priests with Christ (this is talked about throughout Revelation) who look after all those on that paradise earth.

Read what the passage actually says.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%207;&version=31;

1. (7:1-8)144,000 are already defined and they are all of Jewish decent.
2. (7:9)After they are described is specifically says there are tons more of people from every nation.

Taking the most symbolic and image-ridden chapter of the bible and interpreting it literally is not a good idea. Revelation speaks of great beasts, a great harlot, etc. It is a vision full of symbols and metaphors and many other things, so would it be too hard to believe that the 144,000 are not literally of Jewish decent?

Note that the usual listing of the tribes is not used (Compare Numbers 1:17, 47). The use of describing them in this manner is to show a similar organizational structure of the original 12 tribes. Each tribe has the same number of people and is neither more or less powerful than each other. It underlines the equality of the whole nation of kings and priests. This is not to say that those of the annointed class can not be of Jewish decent, only that it is not required. Them being of solely Jewish origin would also conflict with Revelation 5:9, 10 where the 144,000 are described as being out of every tribe and people and nation. I've got more evidence if you want it, but I think you get the point.

As for the great crowd described afterwords, an important word must be noted. The word enopion (translated before in English) literally means "in the sight of" and is used several times in reference to humans on earth who are "before" or in the sight of Jehovah. It is used at Exodus 16:9 in reference to the nation of Israel coming before God. Obviously, they did not suddenly and temporarily ascend into heaven.

 7:4-8 specifically says the names of the 12 tribes...

4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
   from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
   from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
   from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
   from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
   from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
   from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
   from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
   from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

and 5:9-10 is not a contradiction; the entire chapter of 7 which details 144,000 of Jewish decent as leaders and many others for all tribes which is the whole group of "chosen" people, the whole group is what 5:9-10 are referring to.

Either way it is pointless to argue with you. You are merely parroting what your preachers has taught you vs actually thinking about what it says.