What does Putin want with Ukraine

[ultima]

Kasz216 said:

ultima said:

So wait, the leaks are fake because of the email address? Because, you know, that'd be a very easy thing to change for the leakers. So that's a suspiciously dumb mistake (if it is one), considering they actually used a plausible domain for Klitschko. Are you also one of the people that deny US involvement in the Orange Revolution?

Russia actually has territory on the Black Sea. So the assertion that Crimea is the only place for their fleet is false. Especially when one takes into account the lease into 204X, which gives Russia plenty of time to develop a base in their own territory. Also, talk of Russia not wanting Ukraine in the Customs Union is nonsense. There have been many talks within Russia and Ukraine of that happening.

It's unfair to blame current Russia for the deeds of the Soviet government. Holodomor happened before WWII; is it fair to blame current Germany for things done by the Nazis? Regardless of what you (and many others) say, Russia has been a very good ally to Ukraine.

The Leakers are just Anoynymous Ukraine.  So just regular internet people really.  So yeah.  It was a dumb mistake.  It's not an unheard of thing, the Ukrainian people who linked it probably just didn't know anything about Lithuinian email addresses except what the popular one was, because they also tried, but failed to make some inroads in the Ukraine.

It wasn't some diliberate russian propaganda move.  Just someone from the intenret who favored one side making up a fake email.   

You really can't see just how  huge a gaping problem that internet it?

Maybe they can leak some conversations next betweek Klitchko and Obama, from his [e-mail] email address.

 

As for the Orange revolution... the results of the second election showed the protestors were fully in the right.  So I'm not quite sure what the big complaint is there.

 

And no.  Russia really doesn't have anywhere else to put the black sea fleet.  Why the hell else would they station it in a foreign nation? 

Eventually they'll have a base built in Novorossiysk... even then it's a much poorer location then Sevestapool.  

and again... that 42 year lease means, nothing.  Since it was made under the deposed president.

So let me rephrase.  Crimea is far more important to Russia then the rest of the Ukraine.  They need it.

 

...and no.  Russia has pretty much always been the same to the Ukraine.

Terrible, and unwilling to let it actually stretch it's own wings...pretty much threatening it in various ways anyway it's tried to establish some independence.

Yeah, because it's really hard to google things, right? Also, government officials may never have other email addresses, right? Especially a country like Lithuania, with a lot of enemies wanting to get their greedy claws on their secrets. Hey, I'm not conclusively stating that the leaks were legit; however, the reason you give to refute them is horrible.

About Orange Revolution: the point is not that it may have been warranted (in addition, it being warranted is debatable). The point is that US was involved in the domestic issues of Ukraine. So claims of current involvement are not as outrageous as you try to make them out to be.

Why is the Black Sea Fleet stationed in Chrimea? Because that's where it's been historically, since 18th or 19th centry. They had the infrastructure there, and Russia did not have the funds to relocate after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. A naval base is not something you can load on a truck and move to a different location. Is that not obvious?

And Russia has been terrible to Ukraine? Really?

And check that out: EU approved a $15B loan to Ukraine now. There goes your justification of previous EU offers. This says two things: EU had the money to cough up and that EU is more willing to help out the current renegade government, that was able to come to power thanks to street thugs who hired snipers and blamed the murders on the democratically elected officials.