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ultima on 04 March 2014
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Kasz216 said:
ultima said:

And the emails of Klitschko leaked by anonymous? Do they also say nothing?

You'd say probably about half the Ukrainian people? What exactly would you say about them? And you still didn't explain how US goodwill is vitally important to the Ukrainian public or even state.

I'll be honest, I have no idea what you're referring to. As you noted, I wasn't at an age to care about these kinds of things 15 years ago.

EU loan practices aren't really relevant; I'm not accusing them of inconsistency. The fact remains that their loan offer was a very small fraction of what Ukraine had asked for.

As for your last sentence, that right there is much more of a conspiracy theory than what you were attacking earlier. Ukraine's economic collapse is in no way advantageous to Russia. Especially when you consider their push for a Customs Union.

Here's a  question... did you check the email addresses?  Would the advisor of the Lithuianian government use an @delfi.net tag?   @delfi.net is a public internet company.

That would be like if the CIA ran it's black ops through AOL, even though AOL could read all and have those emails and has shoddy security.  Or maybe Namepro.CA since delfi is actully an estonian email address.

If the emails were genuine at the very least it would be at "lrv.lt."  If it were some big US conspiracy he'd probably have a specific US.gov email address... that hey, probably doesn't have his name right out there like that.

I mean hell, Klitschko has his own private email server, the government of Lithuiania doesn't?

 

They're poorly made fakes relying on conspiracy theory sites, and main stream meadia being too lazy to bother to even do the slightest bit of fact checking.


Outside that it's a case of conflicting conspiracy theories.  The Nuland phonecall more or less exposes those emails as fakes.  Or at least, their importance exagerted.

You don't go through the trouble of directly funding a puppet party and puppet leader then specifically talk about trying to convince him to NOT be head of the country, espeically when polls show him to be the front runner.

 

That said.  The Ukraine isn't like Aremnia and those other countries.  The Ukraine is vital to Russia's well being on a much higher level, because Crimea is the only place to station their black sea fleet.

Loss of it would more or less make it impossible to have a Western fleet.   They don't want the Ukraine in a customs union.   They want the Ukraine to be a part of russia again, either offically or unofficially like South Ossetia.

They would be better off losing parts of actual russia then they would crimea.

 

As for the past.  THe Ukraine has only been indepedent since 1991, and didn't get a consitution ratified until 1996.  After decades and decades poor russian management, ethinic cleansing.  The worst of which being the Holomodor under Stalin.

Another name of which in Ukrainian is "Famine Genocide". 

So wait, the leaks are fake because of the email address? Because, you know, that'd be a very easy thing to change for the leakers. So that's a suspiciously dumb mistake (if it is one), considering they actually used a plausible domain for Klitschko. Are you also one of the people that deny US involvement in the Orange Revolution?

Russia actually has territory on the Black Sea. So the assertion that Crimea is the only place for their fleet is false. Especially when one takes into account the lease into 204X, which gives Russia plenty of time to develop a base in their own territory. Also, talk of Russia not wanting Ukraine in the Customs Union is nonsense. There have been many talks within Russia and Ukraine of that happening.

It's unfair to blame current Russia for the deeds of the Soviet government. Holodomor happened before WWII; is it fair to blame current Germany for things done by the Nazis? Regardless of what you (and many others) say, Russia has been a very good ally to Ukraine.