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Danman27 on 24 February 2014
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Zkuq said:
Danman27 said:

I know MP doesn't just make itself, but that doesn't mean a lower quality game overall like you're assuming. And yes, it is an assumption. And the fact that you don't like it, doesn't mean that others can't. It's still added value to that game because others enjoyed it. The fact that the multiplayer existed made the game no worse for you, and it made it more enjoyable for me and other people wouls say the same thing I did. That's my point. If you don't want to play MP, go ahead. I think you're missing out on a huge part of the game. But until I actually see a game having multiplayer make the singleplayer of the game worse than its predecessor, I will say your claim is ludicrous because the claims of people with this opinion has no evidence backing it. If you don't understand that, then I give up and you "win." I've never been in such a long argument with someone about why it's bad to be a dick.

Oh, I didn't say it's always lower quality game. I think I did at first, then revised my statement to the resource form. Either way, there's a chance it'll be a worse game. Of course you can't prove it because you would have to assemble to identical teams, give them both equal resources, and have the first one create the game without MP and the other one with MP and then compare the results. Obviously that's impossible so the only thing remaining is to say that those resources were taken away from somewhere else, be it SP development or something else. I'll give you that, though, that no one is probably going to let SP become crappy just because they add MP, that would be bad for the value of the game.

I agree, MP can add value to some people. But you have to also consider the resources it takes and you'd have to evaluate that against the value added by MP. It's not as simple as 'adding value' because it takes resources from somewhere to create that value. Would those resources have been spent better elsewhere? Maybe, maybe not. Again, it's hard to know for sure but it's not always worth the effort, that's for sure.

The funny this is, I can enjoy MP if it's done properly and not just tacked on to have people keep the game longer and not resell it so quickly. I haven't been playing a whole lot of MP lately but that's just because I haven't found many interesting MP experiences lately. I'm just not interested in playing DM, TDM, and CTF with small variations over and over again in games where DM/TDM/CTF obviously isn't the way to make MP interesting. The horde mode and its variants don't fit in all games either, as entertaining as the mode can be. But trust me, I can enjoy a good MP mode when I run into one.

As for this whole argument... Yup, pretty ridiculous. I get the feeling that you think MP is always added value, doesn't have any negative effect on anything else, and I disagree with that, even though I'm not saying the damage to whatever else is huge. Maybe I'm just not getting your point. As for the being a dick part, we'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't see there any 'being a dick' where you say there is, and it seems neither of our arguments works for the other one.

EDIT: And one addition: I don't think it's ever good to be a dick. The argument isn't about whether it's good to be a dick or not, it's about whether the thing you said is about being a dick.


No, MP is not always added value. A perfect example of that is spec ops the line. I was annoyed by the argument of you implying every single MP is tacked on. And yes, you did make it sound like that. My other arguments were stating that it's clear that a game's quality in SP can still go up after online is added, and it usually does. And they idea that it's always good when a dev chooses to not include multiplayer. I think that any game can have a fantastic MP if done correctly. If they aren't going to, I agree that it might as well be left out. But if done correctly, any game can. I think infamous could have a great comptetitive. The order looked like it was going to be an awesome coop mode at first (and don't say you couldn't totally see that from the launch trailer). And many onlines that you probably have written off were awesome. The wall scaling in uncharted on line was super fun and new. I think that MP needs to somehow reflect one of the major aspects of the single player. If done so correctly it's great. That's my argument. I find it annoying that many peole assume online is tacked on.