Welcome to the corporate dictatorship of America!

[-CraZed-]

the2real4mafol said:

-CraZed- said:

the2real4mafol said:

Fracking has the risk of environmental damage so why can't we develop cleaner and renewable sources instead? I don't know what loony enviromentalists you are talking about. But to maintain our current standard of living, we need to be as sustainable as possible. That doesn't mean restricting the economy, it means tapping into the creative side of capitalism which allowed the industrial revolution innovation possible. 

Also, the rich aren't necessarily evil they are just more careless than the rest of us. There wealth has just disconnected them from the rest of us. 

Finally, nothing wrong with burning wood to keep warm. Just remember to plant a new tree to replace you chopped down. 

It simply is not true that fracking is somehow overtly damaging to the environment. No more so than mining for the precious metals used to build all our precious electronic devices or cars or homes ironicly all of which need power whioch is produced by fracking and natural gas and oil and coal and even solar and wind solutions need mined materials that are extracted from the earth.

This idea of sustainable is so over used and misconstrued to mean that we will never extract resources from the earth and that we'll build wind and solar devices that will power us forever and well all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

We are finding new sources of natural gas and shale oil all the time. Besides the energy produced form fracking is even cleaner than straight up oil or coal.

The loons I talk about are people like Ms. Vera. Or the countless others who would have us ban, cutting down trees, coal mining, nuclear energy, the internal combustion engine for electric cars (even though those electric cars need a source of energy most likely derived from coal, oil or nuclear sources), oil drilling, diggin holes, stealing peoples property for endangered frogs or insects (seriously how can insects be endangered), protest eating of meat while protesting GMO produce (which could lead to less eating of meat) etc. etc. etc.

The circular logic of these people is astoundingly neurotic and shouldn't be taken serious by any rational human being.

And to cap it off woth your final point, the bans have nothing to do with thge cutting down of trees it is for the sake of air quality and the EPA has even recently expanded bans on more types of woodburning stoves. In some localities in the Puget Sound (Western WA state) and I think in San Fransisco you can be fined for using your fire place! It's getting stupid really.

Ok convince me of your claims on fracking. Sources please. 

Even if thats what you think sustainable is, you got to admit we waste far too much (especially food, roughly a 1/3 of food production is wasted). We probably already produce enough food to fed everything and let millions starve. I actually have no idea where you conception of sustainability comes from. It's actually quite funny. But you are certainly misguided, sustainability is about using resources in a way that means they are allowed to replenish. This ain't possible with fossil fuels. Susaintability means reducing the waste our society uses or even making use of our waste.  The main problem with fossil fuels is they are running out. We don't know how much of them is left and currently we have no plan for what happens after they eventually run out. This ain't good and fortunately some long term thinking wouldn't hurt us would it? It also don't hurt to diversify our energy sources either incase one of them becomes unreliable, rare or too expensive. 

Maybe those loonies don't think about things but most environmentalists aren't like that. 

I mean we obviously need to and should use the environments goods to aid us but not be so reckless we deplete it to nothingness. Just look at what happened to the fish stocks due to reckless overfishing with trawlers. We just need to think about our actions and try to make sure we leave something for future generations to survive off. It's a complicated issue which is still overlooked. 

Finally, that is stupid. Burning wood is not polluting like coal is!

Fracking is a process that oil companies have been using for decades to help extract more reserves from wells they have already drilled. Its been in use since the 40's. This helped them get more without the need to drill brand new wells which we all know can be risky and costly both mentarily and in terms of safety. Many of the environmental claims are theorized or considered unanswered questions on how safe it is as there are no legitimate claims that fracking has caused ANY issues to date. No doubt in the use of  fracking (and any other indutrial pursuit for that matter) that there need to be safeguards in place and it should be done with all considerations to not harming the environment, but come on the use of fracking itself isn't some death knell to our environment it a process that extracts oil and natural gases from inside of the earth with even less impact than say oil drilling would cause by well drilling.

Oh I'll admit people waste too much. On that we can agree. But I don't think that killing off whole industries in the name of mother nature is a wise nor in any way conservationalist. It's just plain dumb IMHO.

And again, we agree on that last point but hey it is very real and happening today.