padib said:
I am making an effort to understand, after reading your post a few times, because I'm not a professional in proof and logic. @underlined. Given the conditions being what they are and not different, then it's more safe to assume that it was indeed fine-tuned for the living organisms we see today. Otherwise, it would be like saying, in a crime scene, that the killer could have used a knife instead of a gun if in other conditions he could only find a knife. If he used a gun, then he didn't use a knife. The fact that he may have used a knife doesn't change the fact that he used a gun. So the conditions in the universe may have been different, but what we are certain of is that they are not different, they are what they are and that's the bottom line. That's what we go by, the actual state of the universe, not what could have been. @italics. The idea is not to prove than humans are special, but when the parameters required for human existence are very precise it's enough to wonder if it was designed that way. There's not more to this. It becomes an even more nagging question if you see no truth to evolution and naturalistic explanations to life. |
Im quite a bit drunk right now, so instead of answering your points directly, I'll try and weave an analogy. Sorry for any incovenience.
See, say you, as well as a million other guys, bet numbers on the lotto. And, for simplicity's sake, say none of you bet the same numbers and that the probability of one of you guys actually getting the numbers right was considerable, statistically speaking.
Now say you actually win the lotto. As in, the numbers drawn are the same as the ones you had bet on.
There are two ways you could see this:
1 - The numbers were drawn equal to mine because I'm special. The numbers drawn are determined by the numers I bet.
2 - I won because I happened to have the right numbers. Other sequencies of numbers had the same probability of being drawn, and in such case some other guy might have won. None of us is special, and who does end up wining is determined by the numbers drawn.
Whenever someone wins such raffle it might seem to them they're in some special position, but that's true despite who exactly wins. So if it's plausible taht on another draw someone else might win, then there's no reason to suppose that any one of these guys is in any special condition.
The point being that the fact that one given guy own - in our example you,you lucky bastard! - can only be seen as saying something about the fairness of the draw itself IF we suppose the very competition would rather have this guy, you, win.
If, on the other hand, the competition was fair, and thus favoured no one, the fact that you won just means you happened to get the right numbers. The numbers could have been different and then any other guys would have won, if not on the first draw then on a subsequent one. You own because your numbers just so happened to line with the drawn numbers, instead of the numbers having been drawn so that you would win. And this isn't at all strange: it's expected that someones umbers would do so eventually.
So the only reason to believe the numbers drawns were so drawn to reflect the numbers you bet on - the only reason to believe the draw wasn't fair with the other competititors - is to believe, beforehand, that the competition favorus you.
Point being that you can't try to used the fact that you've won as evidence that the competition favours you: you winning is evidence of some unfairness if and only if you suppose the competition to favour you. So saying "the competition favours me" and saying "since I won, these numbers must have been drawn because I bet on them" boils down to the same exact same thing, and thus saying "if I won than the competition must have favoured me, because I'm special" is begging the question: you are supposing for starters that you are special among the other competitors. But being special means the competition favours you. So all you are saying is "If the competition favours me than the competition favours me", and that doesn't really add much to anything.
I think I may have gotten a bit less clear than I wanted at the end there, sorry for that. I suppose I don't need to explain how the analogy relates to the topic, but anyway:
The people playing are possible forms of life that could emerge. The numbers being drawn are the characteristics of the many possible worlds, each draw being a world. The competition itself is the universe in the broader sense, and the people fiddling with it, if it is indeed being fiddled with, would be equivalent to "the creator". You represent the human species, of course.
I just hope you can follow this drunken detour of mine and actually take something out of it.