fighter said:
Kasz216 said:
fighter said:
Kasz216 said:
fighter said:
1/ France is one of the cuntries with most Roms, and we integrate them better than elsewhere. The delay to the Shengen integration allows to negotiate a treaty of return if the foreign roms have illegal settlements and no formal address in France (just as if you are illegally camping in Marseille you are sent back to your home in Paris). At least you tacitely acknowledge your EU exchange argument was fallacious.
2/ Are you unable to distinguish seduction and harrassment ? We are, and consequently our women are not as raped here as they are in the US.
3/ Source for the negative effects ? Our racism is shown as progressing, true, but less than in other OCDE countries if you count far right votes. Also, France is more a melting pot than a salad bowl thanks to the fact that since forever French have less issues with mixed couples (formally demonstrated since the early colonies, we fuck without discrimination  [along with the portuguese and in opposition to the anglo-saxon/ commonwealth world])
Guess I will have to leave it there. I was initially requesting a debate on social policies, which are the true way to judge a state. Guess that even on societal identities it is too difficult to have a proper debate.
|
1) That's a stupid law... seems designed only to keep immigrants out of "well to do" areas.
2) The above poltitical case was deemed by many french female polticians as routine, and one that just caught media attention, there are countless statements about women being harrassed in everyday life, at pretty much any job that men and women work together. Constantly hitting on a woman every day while at work with her when she wants you to shut up is sexual harassment.
3) I'm not sure why you'd need a source. It seems fairly obvious. The inequaties between races are completely ignored. What's hard to understand about that? Past that... heard any stories lately about your defense minister?
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/11/the-justice-minister-and-the-banana-how-racist-is-france.html
http://blackagendareport.com/content/debunking-myth-color-blind-france
The colorblind polcy allow racism to continue and simply hide behind the lack of statistics it collects to claim it isn't.
|
1/ It is designed to enforce proper domiciliation. If foreign Roms or any schengen citizen wants to live in France they will need a formal address so we can control/integrate them properly (make sure they are registered/ get electricity, water, send their kids to school etc.). It also clearly avoids the factions of Roms who traditionnally do not assimilate, you can call it racism, we call it integration.
2/ the issue of sexism you point at has nothing to do with french seduction, unless of course making fun of a woman is somehow a way of seducing - and unless you provide some statistic I can only tell you that despite being a country with anti-harrassment laws as any other country we are also one where feminism is the most advanced (FEMEN chose Paris for a reason) and we love our women of all ages and races and they love us back, rape rates are low and workplace harassment laws are regularly re-modeled, enforced, and we are studying minimum quotas of women in all parts of our political/ economical structure because yes, we are lagging a bit behind there (and only there).
3/ The sources you provide are not illustrating our racial issues as a side effect of not collecting racial statistics. They only reflect a very basic reality of urban mismanagement. When we integarted massive foreign populations we created stupidly huge and ugly buildings in new neighborhoods. And of course by creating a neighborhood of sub-average revenue you will start a snowball effect of contrast in job access and criminality to the neighbouring better ones. I live in Brussels now which did the exact opposite thing meaning mixing poor and rich neighborhoods after the French non-example and directly non-inspired by it. If you watch French media everyweek we discuss how stupid that decision was and how we need to solve it asap. Not enough efforts have been made and pretty much any frenchman/woman would aknowledge that.
Our Justice minister has been the focus of a lot of racism, after all we have racists yes. You should also consider all the reactions in her defence, the pursuits of all those who attacked her publicly and the recent marches in the street in her name. Obama didn't get much of the latter as far as I know.
|
1) Yeah, i'd call that racism.
2) Statistics are meaningless in a society that specifically pressures people to talk about it... and while the laws exist. They don't actually give any remedy to those affected...
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/27/world/la-fg-france-women-20110928
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/01/world/europe/01iht-letter01.html?pagewanted=all
http://totumfacere.blogspot.com/2010/01/rape-culture-in-france.html
Though hell...
http://www.policymic.com/articles/32421/1-in-4-french-women-are-afraid-on-the-street-due-to-sexual-harassment
As for rape rates by the way... they tend to be misleading, espeically between countries, as often times, reporting of sexual abuse is largely based on how comfortable people are with it/expect something to actually be done. It's believed something like only 15-20% of rape is reproted in western countries.
Paradoxily high rape rates could actually be a sign of lower rape. As people feel more comofrtable reporting rape.
Though yeah, "seduction culture" to everyone in the workplace or just walking down the street totally is sexual harassment.
3) That's because Obama didn't really get much of the former. That kind of stuff is pretty unheard of in the US, and treated as the outbursts of crazy people, because it generally is, unrepresented fringe, not actual poltiicans.
|
1/ then any immigration policy is racist
2/ no country comparative statistic in your favor ? ok - and if the comparative study is in favor of France then it has to be because French women are supposed to stay silent and US women are open about their rapes ? ok
lol
3/ Obama gets a lot of the former. MUCH more than Taubira does in France
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/anti-obama-racism
Sorry, it was my mistake believing you could hold a debate.
|
1) No, it's racist to force people to stay in specific areas in a country.
2) I don't know.... 1 in 4 woman afraid to walk the streets seems pretty compelling. Outside that... so you believe that Sweden is a haven for rape... and they have far more rape then any other country including places like India?
If so... why?
Gee, if France stops taking statistics all togeter there won't be any sexism at all i guess. Hell, they can ban health statistics too, then nobody would ever be sick!
3) Don't see any politicians in there.
If you aren't willing to actually be intellectually honest and lok at facts, that's fine... but, the facts are pretty clear if you actually bother to work.
France needs a LOT of work, and a lot of it's culture is toxic, espeically regarding women.
