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Kasz216 said:
fighter said:
Kasz216 said:

What is there to say about the Roma?  France keeps deporting them even though Bulgaria and Romania are part of the Europeon union, specifically trying to keep them out of the free travel agreements due to well... racism.

Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia are not yet part of the Shengen zone. Is that really your argument ?

 

Outside that.  Sexism, france has ridiculious levels of sexual harrassment, not sure what more there is to say about that.  You've caught up somewhat legally with the 2012 rule change, but are nowhere near the US.  I'm not even sure how or why you'd try to debate that... as it's a pretty obvious and well known thing.

The whole thing stems from the fact that the US sociologically has seen sexism as an attack on human rights and dignity, and traditionally in europe it has been seen as an ecomic loss... Made espeically bad by the whole French "seduction" culture.

The only thing I can aknowledge here is the seduction culture. How is it sexist ? Being outgoing about sexuality is what makes it healthy. Societies which hide/forbid sex are the ones which turn out having the most perverse side-effects (Muslim world, US, Japan, etc.).

I mean... shit, stuff like this happens... in government.   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/10/french-mp-fined-chicken-noises

LOL And the guy was reprimanded within the day by all sides when in the US Bill Clinton's case was obviously covered by his own party.

and no... France really isn't, another thing to look at is it's race policies, which is to institute race "color blindess" which coincidentally is the exact same thing conservatives try and do in the US... because to do so promotes and perserves premade sturctural inequalities and often allows racist attitudes on the basis of "Oh we don't see race".

"Color blindness" is a useful measure that allows us to see criminals as they are (psychological issues/ psychopaths and/or low income, low education, and/or part of extreme ideological groups) instead of racial, religious or ethnic groups. Quite useful actually, we are very proud of that. And it doesn't prevent corrective measure such as anonymous curriculums or hiding your neighborhood origin (positive integration laws in general).

It allows racial inequality to simply be overlooked.  Well, until said minorities start lighting cars on fire anyway.

Typical US reasoning. Those who lit up cars were of all races in different proportions, the one true common denominator is they were from bad neighborhoods and had no access to the normal economical enablers. Had we revealed the statistics of those caught by the police (which tends to catch through profiling aka the enhancing the statistical modus) we would have had the impression it was a specific racial issue (Arabs) when in fact it is a general integration one (eastern europeans, portuguese, arabs, central africans, etc.) and was identified as such by the french.

 

Anything else ?


1)  Well... yeah.  France is specifically trying to keep them out even though they're set to be in by 2014.  Due to racism.

2) Incorrect.  It's not healthy for women to be routinley sexually harrassed on a daily basis.  Get a grip.

3)  And yet it's proven to have huge negative effects... and yeah, your hiding your racism by pretending to be color blind allows racial profiling.  Your defeating your own arguement.

1/ France is one of the cuntries with most Roms, and we integrate them better than elsewhere. The delay to the Shengen integration allows to negotiate a treaty of return if the foreign roms have illegal settlements and no formal address in France (just as if you are illegally camping in Marseille you are sent back to your home in Paris). At least you tacitely acknowledge your EU exchange argument was fallacious.

2/ Are you unable to distinguish seduction and harrassment ? We are, and consequently our women are not as raped here as they are in the US.

3/ Source for the negative effects ? Our racism is shown as progressing, true, but less than in other OCDE countries if you count far right votes. Also, France is more a melting pot than a salad bowl thanks to the fact that since forever French have less issues with mixed couples (formally demonstrated since the early colonies, we fuck without discrimination [along with the portuguese and in opposition to the anglo-saxon/ commonwealth world])

 

Guess I will have to leave it there. I was initially requesting a debate on social policies, which are the true way to judge a state. Guess that even on societal identities it is too difficult to have a proper debate.