Ben Stein to take on Darwinism on April 18

[Sqrl]

Final-Fan said:

Sqrl said:

I really think you underestimate the importance of a name.

To realise that you need a name is to ponder "I am".

To realise that you and your species need names is to ponder "We are".

Those concepts seem trivial to us but that is the absolute foundation of self-awareness...if not its definition.

Zero expertise over here, but I have to register my skepticism. Seems to me that a name is a way for other individuals to identify yourself. You know who you are with no need for a name as such. I would think that naming oneself would be concurrent with or after naming others, either as in "hey, I need one too!" or being given one by others.

Of course, none of that undermines your argument. Obviously naming oneself is a sign of self-awareness, but I would think that it's ALSO a sign of awareness of others.

Am I wrong?

Well I'm far from the authority on this, but it does seem to me that to grasp the idea behind a name for someone else you would need to grasp it first for yourself ....perhaps that assumption is faulty but it seems reasonable given the egocentric nature of instinct. I think this process of realizing you need a name and then that other individuals do as well is probably a process that takes place in the mind of every self-aware creature as it matures, and to a certain extent is probably facilitated from generation to generation by the existing members highlighting its importance. Or in short, I don't think all members of a species would make that connection without assistance, but that is purely my speculation.

I do see your point about names being useless without others to utilize them with. My point wasn't so much that they were seperate developments, but rather that the utilization of names shows that the creature has both capabilities.

note: made some edits