BMaker11 said:
1. How did you get "exclude all existing PS4s" from me saying "there are 1 million in consumer hands and less than 0.4% are breaking"? I was specifically talking about the rate at which the units in consumers' hands are breaking. And I said that we know, roughly, how many have broken. If you meant to flip what I was saying to refer to units yet to be produced, you miscontrued what I said. You said it's an "on-going problem". On-going implies that they are producing more and more PS4 and they keep breaking. Like when the 360 came out, they kept producing 360s and they kept breaking. That's on-going. When we know how many are in people's hands and we know how have broken/projected to break, it's not an "on-going problem". It's a just a matter of "when will that figure hit so we can have better analysis of the product". 2. So, is Amazon the end all? Is Amazon the barometer by which we determine everything? Do you know how many people don't leave reviews? We know that some PS4s are breaking. Of course, then, are we going to see a review that says "hey, my PS4 broke". But what about all the people that don't even touch the review section of Amazon? Your view is very skewed if it's based on one retailer's review scores. Plus, have you heard of a "vocal minority"? The smallest group being the loudest? You're basically letting a handful of bad reviews supercede everything else. 3. If you didn't base your opinion on the information you were given, then what is it based off of? Nothing? Did you buy a bunch of PS4s and then some broke on you? Please tell me how to obtain this information, other than spending loads of money on multitudes of consoles to determine these things on my own, without going through the channels that have said information, so I form an opinion. I could have sworn that the correct way to do things is receive information and form an opinion on it, but apparently you have some mystical way of forming an opinion without information. 4. No, it's not. I addressed each point you made. You said "30% of the reviews were on DOA consoles from verified purchasers". That's just wrong, anyway, because the TOTAL number of 1 star reviews is less than 25% of all the reviews, and of that less than 25%, less than 25% of that are from verified purchasers. So you just completely fabricated numbers. You said that PS4s breaking is an "on-going issue" when we know that A. over 1M people have bought PS4s and B. Sony gave a figure of less that 0.4% of them breaking. We haven't heard of more than 4,000 breaking, so how is it "on going"? Like the apple analogy, if I gave you 100 apples and said 10% would be rotten, how is it an "on going problem" when we can expect about 10 to be rotten? If it seemed like I "attacked" your points, well, it's because they're so ludicrous that any reasonable response to them would look like an "attack". |
1. When I use the word "on-going", I use it in the common meaning of "it is still happening". Which I believe to be the correct usage given the context of this thread. If you believe that the word is used incorrectly, then
a. provide a reference that shows that your definition of "on-going" is more acceptable than mine in this context.
b. kindly provide me with a replacement word if that is the case, so we can clear up this confusion,
c. OR, if you can't, then go with it. It is, after all, the meaning of the term that counts, not the technical definition.
But you can't define the word "on-going" to something I didn't mean, and then attack that point according to your redefinition. That is another example of a straw man.
2. Finally, you are now adressing my argument, and from there we can have a constructive debate. Yes, I understand that Amazon reviews are not perfect, and I understand the concept of a vocal minority. BUT, we can compare the PS4 reviews on Amazon against similar products and get an idea of:
- The typical ratio of defective reviews against good reviews. Is 30% (or 25% if you prefer) a "normal" ratio? Or does that imply something is wrong?
- The ratio of verified reviews against non-verified reviews. If 99% of the reviews were non-verified, then I would have agreed with your opinion that these are probably shills, but in the case of the PS4 they're not - they are overwhelmingly from verified customers.
I think the Amazon reviews are indicative that the PS4 failure rate is higher than the 0.4% quoted by Sony. But to be relevant to this thread - those reviews are indicating that people are still opening their boxes and getting broken consoles. So yes, PS4's are still breaking.
3. See point 2.
4. You were using initial media reports as a basis for your attack, which I never referenced. My reference is and has always been the ratio of verified Amazon customer reviews. It is incredibly disingeneous to make a claim like "Yeah, but if not for those media reports you would not have known about the issue". That is entirely besides the point, because I do not base my opinion on those media reports. Attacking the media reports do not address my argument, and by ridiculing me as if I've referenced those reports, you are simply attacking a straw man.
