| Kasz216 said:
Additionally, Amsterdam NEVER had gangsters and turf wars. That's sort of the thing people miss in those arguements Amsterdam would have far lower violent crime rates with or without drug legalization. Meanwhile Property crime in Amsterdam saw a huge increase after legalization . Marijuana shops tend to be magnets for property crime, which coincidentally is why cities have greatly reduced the number of shops they allow in the netherlands.
B) Because that's how cheap cocaine is. Cocaine is ungodly cheap. It's cheaper to produce than a 2-liter of soda. Though thanks for listing a bunch of things that raise the price of legal drugs that illegal drug dealers don't have to deal with like book keepers and lawyers and actually having to pay people decently. Cocaine black market prices will just keep getting cheaper. So your talking $5-10 a gram, OR the black market is back and as strong as whenever at whatever level we decide is the bottom rate cocaine can sell for. Like I already explained, Cocaine, crack and drugs like that are far cheaper than drugs like Marijuana. If you'll note. Cocaine is illegal in Amsterdam and pretty much everywhere.
As for the prices in Washington in Colorado you realize NOTHING has been implmented in either state yet right? It's a little early to be talking about this like it's some miracle that's worked when it hasn't even started yet. Meanwhile, it's worth noting that in 2011 there was actually a huge crash in Marijuana prices. http://www.businessinsider.com/the-great-marijuana-crash-of-2011-2013-9 Look at just how small a profit margin is on that Marijuana. However, Cocaine? Cocaine's profit margins are outrageous.
C) Prohibition is actually not the comparison you want to make. During Prohibition, do you know how all those illegal bootleggers sold their product? Pharmacys. Pharmcists were allowed to perscribe booze to whoever, so while staying illegal, gangs bought a bunch of pharmacys as a front to sell their booze. Outside which, mobs did not become legal when prohibition ended, they did not just the workforce, and they are still around today. Nor did removal of prohibition kill the mob. What REALLY killed the mob was the federal authorties deciding to finally take action. They basically stopped taking bribes.
D) Or they can just sell drugs, illegally and make more profit, and not have to worry about a bunch of shit. Oh yeah, and they can still act like paramilitary organizations and gain power that money just can't buy. If money was all that mattered, all these fuckoff dictators like Mugabe, Assad and the Saudis would all give up being dictators and live it up in Europe or the US... these guys already have way more money then they'll ever personally need.
Also, you know. It's not like foreign governments are going to be like "Oh you guys want to be legal buisnesses now, all the murders and slavery and illegal activities are all forgiven! Since it's for the US!" |
My understanding may be fallacious. However, no more than yours. I intentionally stated my understanding was limited which should help you see I'm not pretending to know all there is about dutch organized crime. And to promote healthy discussions between us in the future we need to start providing a source with every statement. I'll do it if you'll too. I know you have knowledge but we all make mistakes.
A) I stated that regardless of purity laws, crime in Netherlands dropped. (maybe I didn't make that clear?) This is factual. source Never say NEVER, While the there is still (to my surprise) gangsters, there is also (to my surprise) turf wars... source looks like they should legalize cocaine huh? more source ..I'm not going to argue about property crime but rather assume you are right. Property crime will still exist after prohibition ends. Keeping policemen alive, cleaning up neighborhoods, and stamping out organized crime is all I care about. That's the focus of the thread.
B)
| Kasz216 said: Doing some more research, Pure Cocaine production wise costs something like $800 tops when it comes to producing a Kilogram of Cocaine. http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/mexicos-cartels-and-economics-cocaine 1 Kilogram = 1,000 Grams. So we're talking 8 cents a gram of cocaine. So while a gram is $100 now... drug dealers can go waaaaay down to match price and still make a hefty profit. |
That $800 is for the procuring of leafs for a Kilo of cocaine. And that's if you are buying from columbia. If you get leaves from bolivia or peru it'll cost around $1,800. Then you got to pay for the workers, manufacturing, and (yes) accountants and lawyers (especially in an illegal market). Plus hired muscle, bodygaurds, weapons, distribution. That's before it even leaves the country. I don't know how much it costs to run a company like this but I bet it aint cheap. The kilo then sells for $7,000 at the ports in Columbia. $16,000 in northern Mexico. $27,ooo in the USA. So that means it costs anywhere from $7 a gram (plus shipping) to $27 a gram (local pick up). But he isn't selling it buy the gram. He's selling it buy the ounce. Which costs the little street dealer on average $1000 ( source ) Since there is 35.2 ounces in a kilo, the street dealer is making $35,200 revenue on a $27,000 purchase plus expenses. But the real question is how much it is per gram! The little dealer breaks his ounce in to grams, 8balls, and quarters, then sells m' for $60, $150, and $250 respectively ( source ) which nets about $1,400 to $1,700.
Simply put. A gram of coke is not profitable (on the street) for less then $35 a gram. At $70 the little dealer doubles his money, which is what every little dealer wants, trust me. 8 cents a gram of leafs in columbia, $60 a gram of powder in the 13 year old's pocket at street corner, USA. My math adds up, I'm a former teenage dealer and current computer scientist.
Your marijuana price crash article is interesting but wow is it naive (the reporter doesn't explain the problem clearly). There are 3 basic grades of marijuana with variations within. There's dirt weed, green weed ($25 an eighth), and chronic ($60 an eighth). What this article says is that in a legal market ppl choose green weed. Not too strong, not too weak. When the article says, "the retail side started cutting the sale price of an eighth of an ounce of marijuana to as low as $25" and "For many, the low prices were simply more attractive than higher-priced, higher-quality product." The article is saying that the high potency weed isn't selling like the mid potency weed so Novice retailer's/investors are lowering the price of high quality herb (which I find very hard to believe but ok).
This is actually good news. I smoked/sold green weed all through highschool making straight A's. As soon as I switched to chronic I failed all my coarses. The only reason i ever finished college was I quit smoking chronic. That stuff messes up memory and concentration especially in math and science. Trust me that article is sensationalism and the only bit of truth to it is how it (poorly) explains that new retailers and investors don't know jack so they switched from high grade growers to mid grade growers.
C) Prohibition isn't a comparison, it is the current policy we live under today, in America. Marijuana producers today use "pharmacies" too.. as one form of distribution. Maybe not all gangsters joined the legal workforce after prohibition ended in the 30's. But it's very rudimentary; exhibit worse criminal behaviour like armed robbery or get a job. I understand your point about tattooed mean old drug dealers in a gang. The reason they sell drugs is they weren't taught a decent work ethic and they wanna stay home and make their own schedule. You have a point. I simply want them to lose customers to the point where they aren't turning a profit and they have to stop putting cops and citizens on edge. I believe that's what we all want. To do this we must go after their profits.
D) Yes and no. IMO, as I have tried to demonstrate, there will be zero profit for gangsters, customers will rather do business with a 7-11 style establishment than an ms 13 thug. But I understand better now that a thug is a thug. They will still be thugs after prohibition ends. At least we will be creating fewer of them. As for business with foreign producers.. Business is business. It's only about making money. Public opinion and sanctions are the only threat to a profitable contract. If the foreign thugs have a decent operation that can supply the needs of a US company they will. As long as there is no threat to their reputation or legal standing.
I wrote something different for C) and D) but when I edited it on my Wii U it got trimmed. (damn 9999 char limit). Any way that's the basic notion. This is my closing argument. It's all I can offer on the subject. Take from it what you will.. I hope you enjoyed the discussion. Take care.
