How do you feel about the fast food strike in the USA?

[killerzX]

the2real4mafol said:

killerzX said:

the2real4mafol said:

if you are so sure that i am wrong, prove it. Show me an economy is free and isn't controlled by government or unions and is successful today or was successful at one point. As far as i know the free market is a myth, it is always controlled in some way. Monopolies and slavery in the past, today regulations, subsidies and trade unions. 

Also, what's wrong with people working together as a collective? And where i come from, workers aren't forced to join anything. 

nothing. nothing is wrong with union. i just dont want people to be forced to be in a union. Given the choice. people generally opt out, because unions are corupt polictical entities that for the past 50 years, had had no incentive to be usefull for the people the supposedly represent.

when you dont have a guaranteed membership base (like the currently do now) they will be forced to improve their "product" or else they will fade into irrelevency.

some goes for businesses, and those dreaded evil corporations. When the freakin government gets involved and either tries to create a market for something, where there just isnt one (read: most green energy/ solar panel companies) or incentivize bad business decisions (like givng risky loans to people who cant afford it or the house), or government just saying screw it, do what ever bad decision you want, make the Volt, etc, if it doesnt pan out for you, we will bail you out.

the free market creates accountability. forces it in fact.

@bold How come China is producing tons of solar panels if there is no market for them? I'm sure they wouldn't make some in mass if it was pointless. And of course, there is no proper market for them yet, it is a new technology. Investment will improve them just like how the car got improved over the years from investment.

because they artifically created a market, by government control of the economy. anyway there's tons of new technologies that have a market, but thats because they are viable in their current state. solar panels arent a viable option, and government subsidies assure that it satays that way. See be artificially created a solar panel market, by "investing" into green energy. There is little incentive for the company to work hard and innovate their product to  state where it would actually survive on its own merits. instead, the has a faux market, and government backing, negating the need to produce an acutally quality product. Why strive to improve, when you have a guarnteed pay check from the government. the free market would do more to improve solar tech then any amount of government interference. 

But back to the previous point, i don't believe in forcing anyone to join anything. I just think Trade Unions are important in the work place. I don't think weakening them or abolishing them will solve anything. I just wish they treated a strike as a last resort. 

well its a good thing that what you believe isnt how things actually are. Because people many times are forced to join the union. Being in construction in my home state, requires you to be in the union. My dad's painting company has to be part of the union, which is why i stopped working for him, i couldnt work as a aprrentice without joining their corrupt union. I would have to pay them my money, just to have that portion of my paycheck into go to electing more statists into public office, funding causes that i despise. Which is why when states become right to work, giving people the option whether to join the union or not. Its vitually unanamous that everyone leaves the union. Becuase they dont see the value in it. Now if everyone had the option to not join the union, said unions, would be forced to improve, or they would lose all of the members and go defunct.

And also i'm not sure if you approach would work for public services. People need stuff like energy, healthcare, education, transport, food etc. These things can't just go out of business, even though these sectors most likely wouldn't.

exactly, which is why there is a market for it, people want and need that stuff. So the company that bests, fulfulls those needs stays in business and thives, the company that doesnt deliver those services with adaquate quality and costs, either go out of business or improve their product. So "green energy" companies would actually have to compete (instead of artificially making the relevent) with others forms of energy to make their product attractive to custommers. So to stay in business they would improve their solar tech. 

But surely you libertarians must believe in some regulations to ensure work is safe and that people aren't forced to work for more than 8 hours a day. And yeah, i agree that some government medling in the economy is not good. Like i don't agree with subsidies because it means a business can be risky and produce too much stuff. Corn farmers show this, as do oil drillers. I also don't agree with the bailouts of 2008 because as far as i'm concerned, those bankers got away with every dodgy deal they did before the housing bubble burst and left everyone else with the mess.

yes, market induced regulations. 8 hour work days, and above median salaries werent union or government introduced ideas. And of course the banks got away with it, the government is the one who told them to do those risky practices. Things like the community reinvestment act, government backed risky loans. The government basicly said, "banks we think its a right for everyone to own a home, so do whatever you have to do to get that family earning $30,000 a year into that $500,000 home. dont worry, if they cant pay it back, we have it insurred, and plus we sold them as government backed securities, so the people that bought them are screwed. lulz"

I still want an example of a truly free market being successful at some point. I guess America was at some point?