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richardhutnik on 24 August 2013
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CGI-Quality said:
richardhutnik said:
CGI-Quality said:

It still reflects things you've said on numerous occassions. So, maybe you've had a change of heart, maybe you don't think his games are only a "Press X to Jason"b - (direct quote), but your "EMOTICONS" don't hide what I've seen you say before.

If you reread my post, you will end up seeing me trying to jam as much of the mentality going into AAA titles today as possible.  I didn't just take a shot at QTE events, but also wannabe screen writers, hiring Eminem, and pushing a digital dog as some sort of major accomplishment.  Now people have to scroll back to read what I wrote.  And no, I have not had a change of heart.  I do have a larger lists of beefs of things I see are causing the industry to go under, which includes wanting to be Hollywood.  You would benefit greatly by seeing what I said NOW, not what I said then.  And I certainly don't owe YOU an apology for my thoughts regarding Heavy Rain, as if you are the one who created the game.  Press X to Jason merely shows, since you brought it up now, that the videogame indusrty isn't even close to being in the same class of storytelling as Hollywood, or book publishers, nor do I really expected it ever to get there.  Top storytellers have more control in books, and can be compensated better by doing movies.  I am sure Ken Levine, for example, is going to get paid well for penning a screenplay, odds are more than he is making on Bioshock Infinite.  You want to know what I think?  Videogame makers need to stop trying to tell stories.  They can build worlds, and certain build real games.  But storytelling?  Sorry, not everyone has the budget of Infinity Ward, and they certainly can't afford to hire the writer of Traffic.  For them to try otherwise, is folly.

There, that is my thoughts on it, since you insist on harping on what I wrote, and took offense to it.  Heavy Rain really isn't something significant enough for me to keep dwelling on.  Hey, maybe it is for you, but it isn't for me.

For a guy merely "being sarcastic", you sure got awfully defensive here. Not looking to taunt you on it, because I generally respect our other debates. Even in this case, your opinion is absolutely fine, always has been. You just comment about it enough (and with similar content each time) for me to believe it is significant enough for you. If I'm wrong, though, I can accept that.

Now as for "Videogame makers need to stop trying to tell stories", this is where I will always strongly disagree. I'm looking at the likes of The Last Of Us, Heavy Rain, Uncharted, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and Metal Gear Solid for recent references that the industry is far from going under based on heavily storydriven titles. 

Many in the industry seem to think these titles are worthwhile and will only continue to make them. Why............. well, there is a market for the FPS, a market for the RPG, a market for Mario, Halo, and GT, etc, etc. No issue in having storydriven games join in, they work.

I was being sarcastic prior, and then you got upset, thought I was taking a shot at Heavy Rain again. I decided now to end up explaining my view on this.

Any my point here is this, if you mind me clarifying a bit: Videogame makers need to stop thinking they are competent storytellers and focus on gameplay and things that improve gameplay.  There will be room for some people doing storytelling, but usually the videogame industry is NOT going to get the top storytellers.  You get B and C list, or even D-list storytellers.   And you get guys who aren't even storytellers at all, who think they want to be.  Today, you have people thinking they want to be in Hollywood and think their game is about telling stories, and that is the frame of mind, that is in the industry and causing it financial issues.

I can give you one example I know personally.  I end up meeting up with a guy who started a small Indie studio where I am, and was trying to get a team together and work on stuff. I ended up asking him about his game, and he goes into a story about how the dinosaurs managed to survive, and there is a story about where you go back in time to try to direct the meteor that killed the dinosaurs to get past their defenses.  I still have no idea what the heck the gameplay is about in his game.  And I ran across yet another person working in the medical field, who is a wannabe videogame designer, and he keeps talking about story.  And there is also the case of myself hearing stories of someone in a major studio talking about how bad the scripts are.

In regards to Mario and GT, what is the story there?  Mario is repeatedly yelled at by videogame player minions that it doesn't have a good story at all.  And Gran Turismo is a driving game.  I would even argue an RPG doesn't really need a story.  It does critically need a world, and you have credible characters and whatnot, but not necessarily a penned story.

Problems get worse the larger the budget also, as they will then hire actors to do the voices.  The risks to profitability go up at that point.

And it is debateable whether or not games are a good medium for TELLING a story:

https://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/wright-says-video-games-are-not-mediums-to-tell-stories/

http://thenerdstreamera.blogspot.com/2012/09/why-video-games-often-suck-at.html

http://n4g.com/news/891364/ken-levine-criticises-video-game-storytelling

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2012/05/11/482411/jon-spaihts/

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/02/video-game-movie-storytelling-jjabrams-valve-gabe-newell/

 

So, take a medium that isn't good for telling stories (interactivity of games works against telling a narrative), and add individuals who aren't that good at telling stories, and throw money into the effort to tell a story, which is leading to it having costs issues, and you get to my point about the focus NOT being on storytelling.  Call of Duty gets away with being able to try to tell a story, because of the amount of money it has.  But, people don't play call of Duty for the story, but the multiplayer, with a decent chunk of players not even bothering with the single player side.

In short, to think you are a storyteller, and try to have that work, is a losing proposition for most people in the industry.  And to think you are a wannabe filmmaker using videogames as a format (hello Kojima), isn't going to work for most people at all.

This being said, game designers can build captivating worlds that are engaging, but to try to end up telling a story, isn't working towards strengths of the game medium.  Not to say it can't be done, but is an exception with very few people off to do it.  And I say this as Ken Levine is off to work on a movie.