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sc94597 on 23 August 2013
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sales2099 said:
sc94597 said:
This thread borderlines itself with hypernationalistic tendencies. When people use the word "country" they really mean "nation-state" or in the context of the U.S, since there exists no single nation, "state." According to the law of the land, both Manning and Snowden did the right thing by notifying the sovereign entity (the populous) of illegal activities instituted by their employees (the government.) Morally, for anybody who prides some degree of individualism, Manning and Snowden informed the individuals (not some silly construct of a nation which doesn't exist in the U.S) about the intrusions of their individual liberties by the U.S government. All in all, they were right, the state was wrong, and that's why they were(or would be) punished.

The thing is that adult life doesn't work with cut-and-dry, idealistic notions of right and wrong. There is always a grey area, a greater good, a means to an end. This "illegal" activites twarted dozens of terror plots.

When you work for an intelligence company for a government that has a shit ton of enemies and has to protect their interests at all costs, there is no simple right and wrong. There is "do what you have to do or people die and property gets destroyed".

These guys didn't have the stomach to do what they were being paid to do......and agreed to keep confidential. Bleeding hearts have no place in a spy network.

Who died or was hurt from either of their actions? Nobody. As opposed to the war-crimes exposed by Manning and the intrusion of individual rights exposed by Snowden. So your entire argument for pragmatic grey-area morality fails at that point. Furthermore, my morality argument was a separate argument from my legality one. These actions by the state are illegal according to the law of the land, that's something that is not based on morality, but representative government and ethics. Also your "greater good" comment is the ends justify means argument used by almost every totalitarian in history.