So an Abortion limiting bill passed in my state, Texas

[the2real4mafol]

-CraZed- said:

the2real4mafol said:

-CraZed- said:

Mr Khan said:

Riddle me this: could you have gotten out of the cycle of poverty if you had not had welfare support? If you had been homeless and starving and sick, could you have achieved what you have?

By leaving home at 16 and working my ever loving butt off. By leaving behind the place from where I came, cutting ties with those from where I came and dedicating myself to the famliy I have made. I lived in a Salvation Army shelter while I was in Junior High school because my parents couldn't keep a place over our heads. I remember my school bus stop was within sight of the shelter so I would walk around the block the long way so the other kids wouldn't see where I came from. Starvation is NOT a problem in this country even for the homeless. Food banks, and cheap staples are abundant why do you think obesity is so prevelant amongst the poor? Also remember, I am the exception out of 4 other family mambers. That is the norm where I am from and in many places where welfare is the primary source of income.

And I never said I was sick... I'm not Tiny effing Tim I'ma grown ass man who pulled himself up by his boot straps and by the grace of God I made myself into a productive member of society (even if I did make some mistakes along the way.)

You can work as hard as you like but if the pay ain't good enough, you will be stuck in the poverty trap. Just look at farmers, they work really hard but aren't exactly rich are they? 

That's nonsense. First off your statement is simplistic and avoids the truth of poverty... Poverty isn't strictly limited to how much money you have. And success is not measured by money alone. Secondly, even someone who makes a living BELOW the poverty line can indeed save and grow their money provided they live within their means and sacrifice. How do I know? I have done it.

Also there is choice... Choice matters. ANd it is the poverty of foresight and values that creates many problems for the so-called poor. If you have no money why are you having children? Yet people do it every day. If you have no money or no health incurance  why are you smoking or drinking? Yet people do it every day. If you are broke why do you have an iPhone or a big screen TV or a BMW? Yet there are plenty of 'poor' people who have these things.

I know 'rich' people people who have gobs of money (I work in medicine mind you) who don't buy cell phones to avoid the monthly bill AND so they cannot be called at any time other than when they are home. Or they have been driving the same car for damn near 20 years and are driving it until the wheels fall off just to avoid having a car payment. Or people who live in modest studio apartments. Or people who wait until they are well into their 30s before having kids. I could go on for lines and lines and lines. All of these people I mentioned either make over $200,000 a year as individuals. The point is that choices impact everything you do and when you have impoverished values and upbringing (which the welfare state provides in spades) you tend to repeat the cycle.

And as for farmers working hard and not being rich so what? Do they like what they do? Are they happy? Wuld they trade being a farmer for another career that would make them a boat load of money? Maybe they would, but then that would be a choice they would have to make wouldn't it?

Yeah it's true if you don't live within your means and you are already poor, you only make yourself poorer. It is a bit like that in my family. A lot of them smoke and drink and have takeaways a lot. They get expensive phones, drive alot and don't save up so are massively in debt for it, because they don't keep track of their spending. My mum on the other hand gets paid half of what they earn and let she has almost no debt because she plans her spending well and saves money wherever possible. State benefits did help her alot though while i grew up. 

But, my point was more about the poor in the developing world most of who work very long hours on farms or factories. They do work hard but even by their standards don't get paid enough. People in the developing world can't really complain for the reasons you said unless they are homeless.

And i understand what you mean by choices but to some people having a child is far more valuable than being rich and you don't need 200k to live comfortably, maybe 30k should be good enough. But you also have to take into account the cost of living. Stuff like fuel and rent are increasingly unaffordable (in the UK anyway) and depending on where you live, giving up the car is not an option. 

But despite all that, i think the poor do need some government support in free healthcare and education and possibly benefits if they need them.