Mind-blow: Our choices are not pre-determined, but God knows

[dsgrue3]

appolose said:

dsgrue3 said:

Not a very solid foundation you're on. You're basically saying since he has one option to view decisions in a non-temporal manner, that negates his ability to view them in one. An omniscient being would view them in every manner; as such, the temporal view is certainly subject to the same logical statements I've presented.

Simple example:

Milk or OJ <-- your illusion of choice, the ominscient being already knows you've chosen one of them. You cannot choose a different one than is already known. 

I think this example illustrates the flaw in thinking that foreknowledge necessarily make predeterminism.  The argument runs like this:

I could either have milk or orange juice.

I am going to choose milk.

God knows this is and is never wrong

Therefore, I have no choice but to have the milk.

However, if you take the line about God out:

I could either have milk or orange juice.

I am going to choose milk.

Therefore, I have no choice but to have the milk.

It comes to the same conclusion.  The reason youre going to choose the milk is not because God knows it, but because the argument already states that you are going to choose it (see line 2 in either argument).  The choice creates the foreknowledge, not the other way around.  For example, suppose you created a computer that could predict the weather with 100% accuracy.  Even though it's never wrong, you would know the computer isn't controlling the weather.

They are the same thing. If you have foreknowledge of the event, you have predetermined it - the path is known. This is determinism.

I agree with the logical argument otherwise.