Saving sex for marriage... Avoiding Lust

[Calmador]

Soleron said:

Calmador said:

Soleron said:

As a purely practical consideration, don't you need to make sure you're compatible? Are you sure she is fertile?

Human love, the biological construct, is BOTH physical and psychological. Sex is a completely natural and complementary part of it.Saying that avoiding sex allows a better relationship doesn't match up with how we know things work. It is obviously your choice, but your way is not better.

You mention "pure mind" and "self control" - why does the Bible and/or you imply that sex is dirty? Literally what is wrong with it, in an otherwise healthy relationship? What is the negative outcome here?

Finally, and I don't wish to make the thread about this, you imply certainty about the existence of a God, which the VGC audience does not necessarily share. Do make some attempt to seperate your arguments that arise from practical/logical concerns and ones from religious morality, so that we do not conflate them.

You do know that God obviously created sex. Its not that sex is dirty but that it CAN be. I say one word and you'll agree... rape.

It can be. But rape can occur within marriage. I don't see how saving sex for marriage follows from that. And no I don't know God created sex, because there's no evidence for God.

This is wrong with it. The things that can go wrong and according to God has said, sex before marriage is the wrong way to go about it. The possible negative (evil) outcomes of sex being done wronly are divorce, aids, players using people up... mistrust of the opposite sex... selfishness. That's what I count so far...

Again wih the God's word. I'm looking for an argument from you without resort to God or the bible. Why, MORALLY, is what you said true? All those evil outcomes are not prevented by what you're doing.

Divorce.... How? If a wife or husband starts having sex others... this can hurt the relationship so far as to end it. No much to explain here...

Aids... As far as we know Aids has been traced back to a man having sex with an animal, a monkey. Sex with animals is something God has disapproved of and the consequence of that as we now know is Aids.

So AIDS is God's punishment for humanity? Wow. 

Players.... Do I need to explain this much? I don't think so... as we all know, people in society are out there manipulating others just for sex... this is a hurtful and damaging thing to our social structure. Men and women grow in mistrust of each other because of individuals that have sex without care about anything else but getting IT. This selfish lust at work.

They manipulate others for money or power too. But sex is singled out in the Bible as uniquely sinful. I don't really see that.

Last and definitely not least... Rape. What is wrong with sex? Its that sex can go wrong... that's what CAN be wrong with sex. Otherwise, I think we're better off looking to God's ways on how to practice sex... in a relationship that is sealed in marriage, between a man and woman only.

You haven't explained why such absolute rules are needed. How about we follow a moral code that doesn't allow for rape, that asks for condom use, that has equality and mutual respect - then all these prohibitions aren't needed.

Put simply, you've shown A moral code is needed. Why is God's the best?

You asked how sex can be wrong... what are the negative outcomes... there you go. And it wasn't hard to think of negative things that can happen because of the misuse of sex. Please reconsider okay.. I'm trying to help ya.

Alright. Now why is God's way the best way to solve this?

EDIT: Also, about my certianty about God's existence... I think I'm allowed to literally post/express myself like so... Its almost like you commanded me to not talk there. There's nothing wrong with the way I posted... and if all or some of VG charts don't share my belief... that is irrelevant. I think you really should reconsider what you said about that too.

Read my words carefully.

1. It helps if you don't assume your reader believes in or recognises the importance of God, because it makes your argument weak.
2. Seperate out the God part and the moral/utility part, because it's easier to discuss them seperately.

You can talk about God all you want, it's just advice for a better debate.

Exactly, it can be dirty, see I knew you could see that. The topic of this thread.. in a phrase it says "Avoiding Lust"... This is what can avoid rape and also I have heard that hate is a great cause for rape... God said that a husband should love his wife as Christ loved the church. Hate would not fit into those teachings.

As for evidence of God... here you go...

I used to be agnostic

I decided to give God faith in order to establish a connection with God.

Then I continued iwth my plan... and prayed for a vision... and said if you do give me a vision I'll serve you all my life and if you don't... I'll never believe in you again and will deny you no matter what.

I had a vision.

I am now a Christian and KNOW God exists.

You officially have evidence of God's existence. God Bless

 

I choose to side with God's ideas of how sex should practice.... If you want to know what I thought about sex... sure I'll tell you. Before I was more deeply involved with God, I would scam almost everyday on how to seduce and use up girls. I thought it was the normal and acceptable thing to do. I thought everyone was doing it... its okay as long as nobody knows or atleast not a lot people. The only MORAL ideas I found we're in the Bible.

And yes all those evil outcomes can be prevented by keeping a pure mind, self-control, waiting for sex until marriage because I know it. I haven't seduced a girl and used her up like what seems to be the trend among men. All thanks to what I'm saying... it is because when I was 11 years old and decided to listen to God that I'm not a player right now. I know it works. And I know by just looking arund me... that not going about it this way... doesn't work. I hear men snickering and saying "She has the face and the body.. look at her.. yeah hit and quit it." Its clear we need God.

About aids... I've heard of people putting words into othe people's mouth but this is more like putting context into my words. I never said that that was God's punishment. Bad consequences are not always a result of God punishing people. The best way I can explain it is... that naturally if you get out of the light.. you'll be in the dark and it wasn't the light's fault. It was yours and your doing. So, I don't know if that was God's punishment or it was just a natural consequence. But, I do know this, God said we shouldn't have sex with animals. It was a good warning.

People manipulating others for money and power is clearly bad. Its clear in the scriptures. Actually Jesus showed the most judgement on that when he caught merchants profitting/manipulating off poor people in church or synagogue. Jesus went so far as knocked down the tables of the merchants and took out a whip and whiped the manipulative merchants out of there.

Why is God's way the best? As you read above, I know he exists. Then I look at what he says... I look around and then at myself in how God has worked in me and see that not being enslaved to sex... and seeking after it and manipulating people for it. Or making it a priority in life is better. It's obvious.

1. I chose to express God's existence as I know it. It is not to make a better argument but literally me just talking to you. I'm not going to exclude God.

2. Again, I won't exclude God.