NBA Finals thread...Onto Game 7! Who wins?

[Scisca]

burninmylight said:

Please forgive my delayed response.

You say James' outside shooting is far weaker than Jordan's, but look at those 3-pointer percentages... 18 percent in the year you pointed out. You call that far superior outside the paint? He didn't start shooting a good 3P% until his 10th year in the league (and it was a damn good percentage too!) LeBron has never shot below 29 percent, and that was in his rookie year. We tend to remember Jordan as this player who was completely dominant in every facet of the game, but we forget that he really wasn't much of a shooter in his early years. His game consisted of getting to the rim at all costs, and he didn't develop a consistent mid-range and outside game until the championship years. This is why I say it isn't fair to compare one guy's complete career to another guy's career that is still being made.

But since we're doing that anyway, let's compare some other stats. We don't simply compare the PPG of two guys to determine who is better. I'm going to ignore the Washington years for Jordan, by the way.

Rebounds per game: Jordan (6.2), James (7.1)

Assists per game: Jordan (5.2), James (6.9)

Steals per game: Jordan (2.4), James (1.7)

FG%: Jordan (just Chicago, remember) (.497), James (.490)

3FG%: Jordan (.291), James (.337)

I'm not even going to get into advanced stats (not right now, at least), like true shooting percentage, points responsible for, and player efficiency rating. But as you can see, James wins three out of five of those "other" categories, and one (FG%) is so close that it's negligible. Points per game is nice and all, but it's hardly tellling of how much more valuable one player is over another. Carmelo Anthony just won the scoring title this past season; no one outside of New York thinks he's in the same class as James or Jordan.

Also, before I forget, I must also point out that you have to take into consideration the different eras that they played in. In Jordan's time, everyone generally had higher FG percentages than modern players. Defenses weren't as sophisticated then. Around the early-to-mid 2000s, defense became such a premium in the NBA and scoring/shooting percentages was getting so low that the NBA changed the rules to pretty much outlaw handchecking around the perimeter. Which leads me to my next point: Jordan had it tougher than James because the game in his day was much more physical. Refs nowadays are a lot quicker to whistle a guy for putting a hand on a ballhandler around the perimeter because the NBA wants to encourage more athleticism and getting to the rim.

Also, you forget or don't realize that James is far more versatile than Jordan ever was. Jordan was a guard through and through; a wing pretty much, a combo guard at best. James has been called on to play PG, SG, SF and PF throughout his career, and has done them all well. He regularly guards all four positions, depending on the opponent's best player, and guards them well. Jordan was rarely asked to guard big men, if ever. The NBA is all about matchups, and exploiting mismatches on offenses and plugging holes on defense. A guy who can perform efficiently at more positions than the one indicated on his bio in the program guide is invaluable.

TL;DR - Everyone had higher FG%s in Jordan's day, but everyone has it easier on offense in Jame's current day. James' versatility is something you're vastly undervaluing, and something Jordan has no comparison for.

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to compare playoff stats, but I'll do that another time. I'd Imagine Jordan's are better based on the fact that he was helped by having better rosters around him.

Comparing rebounds made by a guard and a forward? That's such a small margin, that I can't agree that it's an advantage of LBJ. Also lets not forget Jordan played with the best rebounder in history, so there wasn't such a need for his rebounds, while James often is the primary rebounder of his team and the pressure on him to clean the boards is much higher. Taking this into account MJ easily holds his ground. He is 6th all time guard in rebounds, where does LBJ stand among forwards?

Assists - LBJ actually plays point (point forward Magic style) more often than MJ, who played just 1 season at this spot and averaged 8 assists. When he played sg nobody really needed his assists, they needed him to put the ball in the basket. So when they asked MJ to assist - he was better. When they didn't ask hit to do it - he was obviously worse. This stat doesn't tell us much because of the different roles they played on their team.

Versatility - MJ was guarding positions 1-3, LBJ guards 1-4 (sometimes even 5, since centers nowadays are what they are, but that would be out of the question in Jordan's times when we actually had real centers), so it's not that big of a difference. Versatility is a bonus, but let's face it - this is a highly profesional sport, so it's not that much about being versatile, but about being the best at what you do. MJ was a shooting guard and he did everything you could dream a shooting guard to do. And much more.

You say MJ had a worse 3p shot. Well, all I can say is that if you're the league's best scorer 10 times, averaging up to 37 ppg reg season or ridiculous 43.7 inplayoffs or 41 ppg is the finals with 4 consecutive games with 40+ points, then I guess you don't really need that 3p shot... All coments about LBJ are "be more aggressive and go to the rim more, don't settle for the jump shots" anyway.

 

But the real kicker is that even if MJ's reg season stats were somewhat comparable to LBJ's, his stats only went up in the playoffs, where was always stepping up. LBJ's stats get slightly lower in the playoffs. MJ is 1st in ppg in playoff's history. Also I can't help but feel that the competition MJ was facing was so much better than what LBJ has to face today. I mean, when you compare the Dream Team to the current USA team... They would just eat them alive.

LBJ is a beast and is on the best way to become the best small forward in history, but I just can't see him taking the crown from MJ. Ever. That guy was pure crystal.