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kennyrester on 08 May 2013
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kowenicki said:
Dr.Grass said:

weaveworld said:

those trophies are expected when you run one of the wealthiest clubs in the world right?
So actually, he just did his job.


OH COME ON. There's SO much competition in England from clubs just as rich as Man U. Not to mention the european sliverware. He's been the greatest manager ever.


And I don't like Man U at all. Just being realistic.

You think?

I think Bob Paisley was the best ever.

What he won in just 9 years was incredible: 6 titles, 4 league cups, 3 European cups (champions lge), 1 UEFA cup, 1 Super cup and 6 charity shields.

Fergie was never very good in Europe.  Two Champions leagues in 27 years is pretty poor given the domestic dominance.  He has underachieved in Europe, I think even he would admit that.

A few things to put Ferguson's record in Europe in perspective. First of all, you mention the oft-repeated incorrect stat of 2 wins in 27 years. English teams were banned in Europe for the first 4 seasons of Ferguson's time at United so it's actually 2 wins in 23 years.

Second, I don't know if you remember but in the nineties following the ban English football was totally off the pace in Europe. United were the only English team to even get as far as the quarter finals for the entire decade and even then only towards the end of the decade. In this context I would say that Ferguson's actually massively over-achieved in Europe for the first 15 years with United. The 2000s are more debatable I suppose, but is 1 win and 3 finals in 13 years really so bad?  And the 2 finals they did lose were against (in)arguably the greatest team ever.

Third, the old European cup was a lot easier to win than the champion's league (although more difficult to qualify for). Have a look at the teams Paisley's Liverpool beat along the way to winning their 3: a final against Brugge for example, and a semi against Zurich.