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walsufnir said:
Sal.Paradise said:
walsufnir said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
Seems like the PS4 will no longer have the upper hand against PC.


Yes, even in an architectural way, there is no advantage anymore when AMD releases this. I was wondering last week if this was all due to Cerny visiting devs and told AMD to develop for Sony or if AMD had already plans to do this and Sony just jumped on the train. 

We will see if NextBox also uses this, then it's definitely invented by AMD and not Sony. The only difference remaining is GDDR5.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2250802/amd-to-sell-a-cut-down-version-of-sonys-playstation-4-apu  

 

AMD to sell a cut down version of Sony's Playstation 4 APU

Will show how much work Sony has done

 

CHIP DESIGNER AMD will offer a cut down version of the APU chip that will be in Sony's Playstation 4 later this year.

...

However John Taylor, head of marketing for AMD's Global Business Units, said that a version of the same chip without Sony's technology will be available for consumers later this year.

Taylor told The INQUIRER that the AMD branded APU chip will not have the same number of cores or the same computing capability as Sony's part.

...

Taylor said that this is all part of AMD's "flexible system on chip strategy", but what the upcoming A-series parts will show is just how much work Sony put into the chip that is found in the Playstation 4.

Sounds like Sony had quite a hand in the PS4's APU.


"He said, "Everything that Sony has shared in that single chip is AMD [intellectual property], but we have not built an APU quite like that for anyone else in the market." 

 

As I read the article it's the number of cores that is Sony's "tech".


The 'number of cores' and the 'computing capabilities.' This probably has a lot to do with the customizations we've heard about from Cerny so far, especially how much he talks about compute:

The three "major modifications" Sony did to the architecture to support this vision are as follows, in Cerny's words:

  • "First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today’s terms -- it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!
  • "Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."
  • Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."

"The reason so many sources of compute work are needed is that it isn’t just game systems that will be using compute -- middleware will have a need for compute as well. And the middleware requests for work on the GPU will need to be properly blended with game requests, and then finally properly prioritized relative to the graphics on a moment-by-moment basis."

This concept grew out of the software Sony created, called SPURS, to help programmers juggle tasks on the CELL's SPUs -- but on the PS4, it's being accomplished in hardware.

The team, to put it mildly, had to think ahead. "The time frame when we were designing these features was 2009, 2010. And the timeframe in which people will use these features fully is 2015? 2017?" said Cerny.

"Our overall approach was to put in a very large number of controls about how to mix compute and graphics, and let the development community figure out which ones they want to use when they get around to the point where they're doing a lot of asynchronous compute."

Cerny expects developers to run middleware -- such as physics, for example -- on the GPU. Using the system he describes above, you can run at peak efficiency, he said.

"If you look at the portion of the GPU available to compute throughout the frame, it varies dramatically from instant to instant. For example, something like opaque shadow map rendering doesn't even use a pixel shader, it’s entirely done by vertex shaders and the rasterization hardware -- so graphics aren't using most of the 1.8 teraflops of ALU available in the CUs. Times like that during the game frame are an opportunity to say, 'Okay, all that compute you wanted to do, turn it up to 11 now.'"

Sounds great -- but how do you handle doing that? "There are some very simple controls where on the graphics side, from the graphics command buffer, you can crank up or down the compute," Cerny said. "The question becomes, looking at each phase of rendering and the load it places on the various GPU units, what amount and style of compute can be run efficiently during that phase?"