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thranx on 26 April 2013
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richardhutnik said:
thranx said:
prayformojo said:
thranx said:
prayformojo said:
thranx said:
prayformojo said:
richardhutnik said:
prayformojo said:
If the ideals of Jesus is the accepted values of Christianity, Capitalism is pretty much the most evil thing ever created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

As with any economic system almost, it can be used to do what Christ would have.  Capitalism says nothing pro or con regarding charity, just who has ownership of capital.

If you want a system that Jesus, real or not, would have endorced, it would be a system where every human being has equal rights and the right to life (shelter, food, healthcare etc.) This is not capitalism.

I dont see how capitalism limits any of that. can you give examples?

It's not about limiting anything it's about a system that does not make the right to life....a right. There are lots of examples but healthcare is numero uno. How can a system be called Christian, whilst letting millions of poor people die simply because they can't afford healthcare? The early church basically converted people due to the fact that it nursed the sick, fed the poor etc. Those were the original set of ideals set forth by early Christians as mandated by Christ. If Capitalism were truely based on Christian ideals, no one would go hungry, be without a home, be without healthcare or left to suffer. Those things would be RIGHTS under the law, not options for those who can obtain them on their own.

nothing in capitalism is stopping that.  the bible still encourages work, and not sloth. its expected that people work for what they get.  capitalism in no way prohibits any individual from getting food, shelter, health care. it just outlines how to exchange goods and services and who owns said services. It also ecompanses freedom of choice. Which I also think is a christian value.

So basically, Jesus would support a system that ALLOWS the poor to starve and die of preventable illnesses? Because that's exactly what Capitalism allows.

yes. Jesus wanted us to give of ourselves. of our free will. he didn't want us to be forced by some authority to do good things. he wanted us to make the choice our selves. To be able to decide that it is the right thing to take from your self and to give to others. That one should help others. nothing in his teaching seemed to want to force it upon people, and thus deprive them of the joy of giving and sacrificing from themselves.

Jesus is supposed to be Lord, and this isn't "Oh golly gee, if you feel good about it, and it is right and you freely give, that is good".  It is supposed to be do it.  If you want to be hardcore on this point and go with what Jesus really said, he said, "That which you do to the least of these, you do to me", and then people in final judgement were judged by how they treated the disadvantaged.  It is a matter of doing it, period, not some sort of get joy for yourself, but do it.  It is a matter of producing real results.  What I get sadden by in these discussions is out will come this trope centered around the virtue of the people who give and who gives more than who actually helps.  

Jesus wants the poor taken care of, period.  And one can then go and say, "Taxes and welfare are EVIL because they are not VOLUNTARY", but then same individuals fail to show how those who have these services taken away won't suffer.  Yes there is "He who doesn't work doesn't eat" but there is also a TON more on making sure the poor are taken care of.

And the heart of this, if it really doesn't matter to you, you can make a ton of excuses on this matter, and end up rationalizing how those in need aren't help, and then just chalk it up to how things are.  


again please show me verses or evidence where jesus wanted to force people to do things. Its been a long time since i read the bible, but i do not recall a single moment where jesus forced others to do his biding. He worked off teaching others how to treat others. But not off of force. Had he wanted to force us to help others dont you think he would have intead of creating a religion of teaching, he would of raised an army and created a governemtnthat that would take care of every single person and all their needs. Seeing as that is not what he did, i think he wanted us to choose the right path. I am also open to evidence that Capitalism prevents people from obtaining food, shelter, or health.